Edward Snowden

[SilverBullet]

Hey guy's, I would just like to get your opinions on Edward Snowden.
Is he a criminal? Hero? Was our government right to secretly ignore the constituion in the name of national security?

I may post my thoughts later, but I dont wanna set a atmosphere on the first post, potentially altering your opinions .

[matty7]

he told the world about how its citizens were been monitored every single day - and knew his American employers could kill him or make his disappear for doing this . Criminal = he must have signed some document stating he would abide by some sort of secrecy act so he broke that and is classed as a criminal - Morally = very brave man who needed to inform the world how they are been spied on and other things he knew about

[East]

He is a hero.

If we had 1000 more like him.....the world would be a much better place.

[LJay]

I don't think he is lying.

I do think he is a brave man.

He was wise to run away.

"The truth is out there."

[MikeW]

...Was our government right to secretly ignore the constituion in the name of national security?...

"National security" is a bugaboo. Our government, all governments, are far more interested in protecting their own asses -- meaning their own power and privilege -- than they are in protecting our rights. Of course I'm speaking in a generality. Any particular person in government may very well wish to abide by the constitution. But "the government" is bigger than individual people; its a power structure, a system and it has levels... everything from the politicians you see and hear on the TV to persons operating underground, way below public perception.

The whole thing is GOVERNMENT means *being governed*. Read the first few paragraphs of the Declaration of Independence to learn WHEN people should "throw off" despotism. And in this day and age "despotism" doesn't look like it used to. Despotism now looks friendly, reassuring, dressed in a suit and tie with an american flag lapel pin, all smiles and hand-shakes. People go along with it because they (most of them) don't see it for what it is; they have roofs over their heads, clothes on their backs and food on the table, so who cares about abuses of power and authority? Take any of that away for any length of time, however, and the UGLY TRUTH begins to rear its head. When all else fails, governments govern by force: Brutal force if need be.

We no longer have a republic and we haven't had for some time now. What we have now is a super-survailence society wrapped up in the ILLUSION of a republic, which is good enough for most people. It "looks like" citizens are empowered and that they *believe* they are is all that really matters.

[LJay]

Mike, have you ever thought about how frightened the "government" would be if 75% of the public actually cast ballots in an election?

[SilverBullet]

Wow...
I think on this subject everyone is on the same page ^_^
I was just asking because I signed a petition a while back to pardon him.
It got several signatures, enough to merit a white house response.
this is what they said to me
********************************************************************************************************
We the People

A Response to Your Petition on Edward Snowden

Thanks for signing a petition about Edward Snowden. This is an issue that many Americans feel strongly about. Because his actions have had serious consequences for our national security, we took this matter to Lisa Monaco, the President's Advisor on Homeland Security and Counterterrorism. Here's what she had to say:

"Since taking office, President Obama has worked with Congress to secure appropriate reforms that balance the protection of civil liberties with the ability of national security professionals to secure information vital to keep Americans safe.

As the President said in announcing recent intelligence reforms, "We have to make some important decisions about how to protect ourselves and sustain our leadership in the world, while upholding the civil liberties and privacy protections that our ideals and our Constitution require."

Instead of constructively addressing these issues, Mr. Snowden's dangerous decision to steal and disclose classified information had severe consequences for the security of our country and the people who work day in and day out to protect it.

If he felt his actions were consistent with civil disobedience, then he should do what those who have taken issue with their own government do: Challenge it, speak out, engage in a constructive act of protest, and -- importantly -- accept the consequences of his actions. He should come home to the United States, and be judged by a jury of his peers -- not hide behind the cover of an authoritarian regime. Right now, he's running away from the consequences of his actions.

We live in a dangerous world. We continue to face grave security threats like terrorism, cyber-attacks, and nuclear proliferation that our intelligence community must have all the lawful tools it needs to address. The balance between our security and the civil liberties that our ideals and our Constitution require deserves robust debate and those who are willing to engage in it here at home."
*******************************************************************************************************

The way I see it,
The government that we entrusted, put in office to work for the people that is sworn to uphold the constitution lied to everyone, went against the ONE thing it SHOULD PROTECT MOST VEHEMENTLY, spied on its OWN citizens in a manner against MANY laws that were put in place by courts arround the USA and generally agreed upon by the citizens. THEN when they got caught, they would not accept responsibility and tried to pass blame onto the one person brave enough to call them out on it.

whats even funnier is the petition response
"If he felt his actions were consistent with civil disobedience, then he should do what those who have taken issue with their own government do: Challenge it, speak out, engage in a constructive act of protest"

that's EXACTLY what he did, I guess the government wanted him to ask their permission before going to news agency's...

they said he endangered the lives of Americans and yet the government is who put him in a position to do so, "blame the master, not the puppet."
O, well he endangered lives by giving out information the government was spying on everyone? the government that has never heard of secure networks and encryption has endangered us MUCH MUCH more!

*rant off*

[Rareboy]

He should be hailed as a hero not only in the US but in all western democracies.

Did he change anything? No. The western countries are still gathering as much or more metadata on all of us as ever.

Like when I press 'enter'.

I just hope that someday they all enjoy the couch thread as well.

[MikeW]

Mike, have you ever thought about how frightened the "government" would be if 75% of the public actually cast ballots in an election?

Yeah, that might do something IF THEY ARE PAPER BALLOTS. If the votes are just unverifiable electronic signals tabulated in a black box, why would they give any more of a fuck then than they do now. As someone once said, "If voting could really change the structures of power, it would be illegal."

[SilverBullet]

"If voting could really change the structures of power, it would be illegal."

ooo i like that