Edward Snowden

[LJay]

He should be hailed as a hero not only in the US but in all western democracies.

Did he change anything? No. The western countries are still gathering as much or more metadata on all of us as ever.

Like when I press 'enter'.

I just hope that someday they all enjoy the couch thread as well.

Oh, I'll bet they are,

[WhatsInAName]

When I hear "American Patriot" I think "Edward Snowden"

[jimcrackcorn]

Here's how I see this.

This man took "Top Secret" United States, British, and Australian government files and gave it to news organizations to distribute around the world. He then immediately flew to China and then Russia to escape prosecution. He also had access to Department of Defense files and may have stole upwards of 900,000 files from them!!! His quick departure after releasing these Top Secret files indicates he knew he was doing something wrong.

Every major country on this planet spies on it's counterparts, gathers intelligence, and uses this information to their benefit. The United States just happens to be a little better at it because we spend more to get more (to the tune of billions of dollars annually).

And yes,, The United States spies on it's own people. They listen in on your phone calls, text messages, instant messages, etc.. It's just one of the tools they use to catch terrorist and other extremist who wish us harm.

I think Edward Snowden thought what he saw was unconstitutional and illegal activity by his government, and he took it upon himself to correct the problem. Unfortunately, he probably didn't understand the Big Picture and was a confused young man who couldn't see the trees because of the forest (he didn't understand how this secret information was useful to the United States, Britain, & Australia).

Until we can get him back and interrogate him,, we will not know the full extent of what he stole and who he gave the files too. Russia seems quite happy to have him, and I'd like to know why!!

[WhatsInAName]

Russia seems quite happy to have him, and I'd like to know why!!

Putin will do anything to stick one to the USA, it's really no more complex than that. There is no evidence to say he gave anything to Russia.

Snowden knew he was doing something "wrong".

Of course he did. You don't get to work for the NSA even as as contractor without that level of intelligence and self awareness.

He left the US because giving up the USA was preferable to life in solitary.

With regards to how he chose to tackle what he found, he made a choice.

He could have blown the whistle internally, meaning total coverup and the ruination of his career, or he could release the material to the press which might have actually brought about some kind of change along with acceptance that doing so meant he had to leave the country he was born to.

Effectively Snowden said "Hey USA, The Government is violating your 4th amendment a-hole on a daily basis, and you the people need to know about it and discuss it"

He tried to fight the very tyranny that spawned the creation of your country.

As for all the "he helped terrorism" nonsense, it falls on deaf ears for me given that an American is 8 times more likely to be killed by a cop than a terrorist

Terrorism is the boogeyman of the 21st century, just like communism was the means of control in the 2oth.

We're being played for fools and Snowden made that clear.

[jimcrackcorn]

Putin will do anything to stick one to the USA, it's really no more complex than that. There is no evidence to say he gave anything to Russia.

Snowden knew he was doing something "wrong".

Of course he did. You don't get to work for the NSA even as as contractor without that level of intelligence and self awareness.

He left the US because giving up the USA was preferable to life in solitary.

With regards to how he chose to tackle what he found, he made a choice.

He could have blown the whistle internally, meaning total coverup and the ruination of his career, or he could release the material to the press which might have actually brought about some kind of change along with acceptance that doing so meant he had to leave the country he was born to.

Effectively Snowden said "Hey USA, The Government is violating your 4th amendment a-hole on a daily basis, and you the people need to know about it and discuss it"

He tried to fight the very tyranny that spawned the creation of your country.

As for all the "he helped terrorism" nonsense, it falls on deaf ears for me given that an American is 8 times more likely to be killed by a cop than a terrorist

Terrorism is the boogeyman of the 21st century, just like communism was the means of control in the 2oth.

We're being played for fools and Snowden made that clear.

When it comes to the 4th Amendment and one's right to privacy, it is violated daily. Snowden didn't seem to understand this. Try walking around a major city in the U.S. or Britain and you will have surveillance cameras recording you. One's right to privacy does not supersede a terrorist right to do a jehad on your ass.

Terrorism is not some boogeyman, it is real and also happening daily. It happens in your country as well as in the United States.

If terrorist are left unchecked and allowed to do what they want, they would be blowing up innocent people everyday (well, they pretty much do that already in several countries). Wouldn't you want your government doing everything they can to keep you safe? The United States government & your government apply several methods to catch these terrorist before they kill people, including spying on peoples phone calls, e-mails, text messages, etc.

One must understand that this type of eavesdropping on the public isn't done to find out which porn sites you visit or to collect the number of phone calls you make to your mother daily... They look for specific things such as a sentence that would indicate a terrorist plot (data-mining)

I have no fear about my government keeping secret files on every thing I do or say because they are not interested in my rather boring life. And I assume they are not interested in you either.

[WhatsInAName]

The US and UK have become what they used to tell us the USSR was, a panopticon.

A government having total awareness of every citizen is just fine so long as that government is acting in the best interests of it's people. Something that both our governments seem to be showing us they are not on a daily basis.

You are eight times more likely to be shot by a cop than by a "jehadi".

I am more likely to be run over by a bus than blown up on one.

It's all a matter of proportionality. We were told that the Terrists(sic) want to take our freedoms. Our respective goverments have done more on that front than the Terrists could ever hope to achieve.

So anyway, we'll have to agreed to disagree there Jim.

Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.

George Orwell

[Cuddly]

The US and UK have become what they used to tell us the USSR was, a panopticon.

A government having total awareness of every citizen is just fine so long as that government is acting in the best interests of it's people. Something that both our governments seem to be showing us they are not on a daily basis.

You are eight times more likely to be shot by a cop than by a "jehadi".

I am more likely to be run over by a bus than blown up on one.

It's all a matter of proportionality. We were told that the Terrists(sic) want to take our freedoms. Our respective goverments have done more on that front than the Terrists could ever hope to achieve.

So anyway, we'll have to agreed to disagree there Jim.

Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Aren't you completely free though? I know I am.

[SilverBullet]

I feel like a government that can spy on anyone in the world (with ease) and wields the power of the usa is a scary thing. I think the government constantly pushing for removal of fire arms is a scary thing and im horrified that the government is so dishonest to its people in the name of national security or w/e.
The government has shown a history of abusing power that it flexes, and the more afraid people are of whatever, a terrorist, a boogie man w/e, the more power people yield to this untrustworthy entity that for now trys to act like a loving dog.
Its just like a movie plot called V for Vendetta
I know it seems comical to give a fictitious movie any thought in daily occurrences
but I believe its point has value, and although it may stretch the truth we can look at the current and reason. Once people start having tough times and want their problems to go away they give the government more power and its a cycle that repeats itself until things inevitably go from bad to worse.
then they will vote for a "strong leader" who cant fix the problem as the problem may well be the public themselves at which point more power is needed and less liberties.
we can then look at history of nations that wanted to disarm their citizens. *very scary*

in short, terrorists may scare people being a little monster under the bed but a corrupt government is the devil himself. When a government goes against what its people want and deem right, when that government lies to its citizens it deems too ignorant to understand a problem, when that government looses all credibility. that is step 1

”He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security.” ~ben franklin

our forefathers warned us of governments gaining too much power and the bill of rights is the tool they crafted to prevent it occurring.
It worries me MUCH MUCH more watching that bill erode as it gets reinterpreted and amended to fit in whatever moment our current politicians want it too, than any of the "terrorist" organizations

[jimcrackcorn]

When the government comes in and takes away one of your freedoms,,,,, get back to me and I'll be on your side.

Sincerely,
Jim

[WhatsInAName]

When the government comes in and takes away one of your freedoms,,,,, get back to me and I'll be on your side.

Sincerely,
Jim

I don't have anything powerful enough to remove the glue holding the blinkers on, sorry about that