Breaking Bad Habits

[InbetweenDreams]

So just a quick recap (Or you can get a better idea about who I am, etc in the introduce yourself section). I live in a rural area, very few guys around and the vast majority are out for hookups or simply won't date me for various reasons. I haven't been in a relationship or I should say I haven't been in a relationship that also makes a good model to work off from. I'll skip those details and get to the bad habits I have developed.

What has happened to me over the years and I have finally began to catch on is that I go on a date, think that things are going well, went well but I never hear from them again. Or the dinner date becomes lets go back to my place and watch of movie (that we'll never see the end of) and things get frisky and then afterwards its awkward because things went too far. Usually it's just the first date and nothing more. Other times I just talk to the guy and they stand me up...even drove 20 miles for a no show, while others might have been nice enough to let me know but ended up doing it 3 times in a row.

The problem is I get so upset and depressed by this that I think it might be something I have come to expect. Like I have learned to fail. Not to mention to better control myself and not turn what might have been a good date into an unintentional hookup. Not to mention the fact I'm very inexperienced despite that, I think most people run off because I don't know what the hell I'm doing and so forth. I think other big part of the equation is lack of communication, I think as soon as someone pops a boner thinking stops. I know I'm not suppose to begin a sentence with a preposition but since I am inexperienced I feel uneasy and nervous through the whole thing...am I doing it right, are they enjoying this, what if he wants this or that...it is just to point that I do make it kind of not so great and awkward to an extent.

I might be answering my own questions but it seems that I need to slow down on some things and at the same time not worry about some things.

The reason I say all this stuff is that I have recently met a guy who I think is very special and a uber rare person who I really don't want to mess things up with should things go beyond dating. He's very intelligent, has manners, shares similar interests and is handsome as hell...probably out of my league to be honest. I'd rather not lay a finger on the guy knowing that things could turn into a life long relationship rather than run the bases and probably strike out.

Don't get me wrong it isn't like with other guys I dated and went to dinner and later watched a movie, it simply turns into cuddling, cuddling becomes a bit more intimate then someone falls off the couch then it moves to the bad and clothes come off and while it doesn't necessarily turn into full on sex it always in the end has ruined things. Tell me I'm not the only guy that loses the ability to see the real goal, although I'd say a good portion of those guys only wanted a fun night anyway.

Anyway, I hope I didn't make myself look like too awful of a person.

[azulai]

Looks like your thread got lost!

You are not an awful person. You sound far from that. You sound normal. You are getting experience, discovering who you are, and what you want out of dating. Your post clearly shows self reflection. Don’t be so down on yourself.

When I decided to start dating I did set limits for myself that were unique to my situation and understanding of myself. Was I 100% consistent all the time? Of course not.

Good luck with that hot guy!

[LJay]

I'm really too tired to write much, but it comes to mind that you might set things up with this nice guy that do not get you on the couch, at least at first, go walking, visit an outdoor or historical site, ask him for help with a project, go to lunch where you will naturally be going back to work. In other words play it a little cool and get to know him. He sounds like he is well worth it.

In the meantime work it into your head that when it does come time for some sex you should take your time.

You sound like a really cool guy and sooner or later the right fellow will recognize that. You may not have a lot of choinces/chances but tehy will come along. Hang in there.

[trywait]

i originally read this as what are your habits during breaking bad? like taking a shot each time Jessie says b!tch?

[MikeW]

....The reason I say all this stuff is that I have recently met a guy who I think is very special and a uber rare person who I really don't want to mess things up with should things go beyond dating. He's very intelligent, has manners, shares similar interests and is handsome as hell...probably out of my league to be honest. I'd rather not lay a finger on the guy knowing that things could turn into a life long relationship rather than run the bases and probably strike out. ...

Ok, well, your thread didn't get replies right away. Sorry about that. It happens around here sometimes. Could be it was held in a moderation cue for a while. Don't take that personal... anyone with less than 50 posts gets their posts randomly held back. It's nothing personal to do with you. But at least you're getting replies now so I hope you come back and help us out.

Ok, so you don't want to strike out with this guy. This is a tricky thing because if it is even possible to "strike out" with someone, chances are highly likely that YOU WILL. That said, if you CAN "strike out" with someone, chances are even more highly likely that it's a good thing... that you just dodged a bullet.

People get themselves all twisted up like pretzels trying to figure out how to get into a relationship. I just don't think it works like that. OR, put differently, I think the relationships that DO work that way or that WERE founded on pretzels end up going south REAL FAST. Why? Well... because in essence they're based on a kind of phoniness... me trying to be what *I think* the other guy wants me to be (although I'm not really that).

Lets get this all sorted out here in [MENTION=23180]axle2152[/MENTION]'s thread, shall we, GS guys?

[InbetweenDreams]

That all does make sense and it does seem like I have got myself worked up in the past worrying about whether a guy would accept me or not... so I have a lot of anxiety when dating guy, fears about being turned down or things going awkward. In most cases in hindsight it has been a blessing in disguise...I've got some stories.

Despite all that I got a good feeling about this one. This is different and a good different, I'm not used to things going well and I'm just worried about the things I might say or do that might possibly screw that up.

I had actually thought the thread went into thin air...not sure what the turn around time is. I don't have any issues with how they manage the forums. I run a WP site for Amateur Radio and the spam is insane...unfortunately no one in the amateur radio group I do the site for is willing to help and I just don't have the time...so it has become somewhat of a ghost town.

[Anocxu]

I have got myself worked up in the past worrying about whether a guy would accept me or not...

I have a lot of anxiety when dating guy, fears about being turned down or things going awkward.

Despite all that I got a good feeling about this one. This is different and a good different, I'm not used to things going well and I'm just worried about the things I might say or do that might possibly screw that up.

You are putting way too much "Reverence" on the concept of a relationship.
This is the source of your anxiety. . "Reverence"

As Mike said .."Twisting yourself into a pretzel" is never a practical way to approach a date.

Relax..Be respectful. .Be yourself..
Why worry about all the things that could go wrong on a date?..Focus on ways how to make a date interesting.
Put your anxiety into action.

~>Listen to your date..
~>Pay very close attention to see if he is listening to you.

If you are too nervous and worried about saying 'off the wall awkward things..'
Just get him to talk about himself..
~> Use the "ping pong" technique
Whenever he asks a question. .
Answer ..then always ask..
~>"What about you?"
~>"Tell me about YOUR experiences with X"
(X= the subject of the question he asked you)

Every question that he asks should lead into another question. . Keep it light ..keep it fun.
Look at it this way..
You already should have a good idea what your date likes to talk about .. the initial e-mails or messages should give you an idea what he is all about..

Note..
It's not easy to ruin a date if the guy is truly interested in you..
A guy that is Interested will give you a "Fair" chance.

With the above said..
There are a list of preceding practicalities.

* Build up to a date..
If your history with dates has not yielded positive outcomes.
Slow it down a bit?
Don't rush into meeting up for a date.. take a bit more time to know what your date is all about before you meet him face to face...?
^^^^
If all of that goes well..at the end of the date..
You hug.. a kiss on the cheek. .
..go home alone and beat off!!

~>Wait for the sex..

[jimcrackcorn]

What you have described about your dating experiences sounds normal. Most of the men you meet on dates will only be interested in a one-night-stand. I had the same experience 40 years ago when I was dating.

The problem with dating is you can meet the right guy that you think is perfect, but that guy may not be that interested in you. Eventually the right guy will come along that will be as interested in you, as you are in him.

You don't have a whole lot of control over how a prospective date will feel towards you... They will either feel a deeper connection, or they won't. The best advice I can give would be for you to be yourself,,,, and keep searching until the right guy comes along.

Concerning the guy who you presently have hopes toward; Stop over-thinking the outcome!!!! Just be yourself and enjoy the time you two spend together. If sparks start flying in both directions, then you have the beginnings of a long future together..

There are no guaranteed results when it comes to dating. It doesn't matter how hard you try, just don't give up,,, and don't allow yourself to become disappointed or jaded. Look at life each day as another opportunity to have an exciting, fun experience.

Sin-cerely,
Jim

[MikeW]

... I got a good feeling about this one. This is different and a good different, I'm not used to things going well and I'm just worried about the things I might say or do that might possibly screw that up. ...

I haven't dated in recent memory... this century... so my memory of what its like to "date" may be a bit hazy. AIRC there's always a kind of "awkwardness" to it, especially in the beginning during the "getting to know you" phase.

One thing you may want to keep in mind, Axle, is that this works both ways. It isn't just about his impression of you. It's also about your impression of him. Currently that impression is favorable. There may be a "there" there between you two, or at least you hope so.

But that's just it... for there to be a "there" there, it has to be mutual... and it has to develop over time. You both have to want to spend time together. So long as that's more or less mutual, enjoying one another's company, then there's the possibly of developing that "there," there.

What often happens, though, is that along the way one or the other comes to the conclusion that they're really not that "in to" or interested in the other. That can happen for a LOT of reasons that may or may not have anything to do with YOU at all.

For example, I was dating this guy... really good looking guy, attorney, money... a real catch on a lot of levels. Things were going pretty well. But this one time I was driving us to San Francisco for an evening out. On the way he popped open the glove box in my dashboard, pulled out all my maps and started re-folding them and arranging them in alphabetical order. On one level there was absolutely nothing wrong with this. He was doing me a favor. But, on another level, this right there told me we weren't compatible. To me this was a "red flag"... that this guy was very organized and enjoyed organizing other people. Well, there's nothing wrong with this necessarily.... its just that I'm NOT a particularly organized person. I *like* having my life be a bit messy and I sure as hell don't want anyone "organizing it" for me.

What I'm suggesting here is in line with what I was saying in my first post. Being afraid of "screwing things up" isn't the way to think about this. I'd even go so far as to say that being FEARFUL that you *CAN* screw things up is more likely to screw things up than not. There's so many problems with it I'm not even sure where to begin.

For one thing this fearfulness suggests to me that you lack self-confidence. Moreover, that you're putting yourself one-down (and this other guy one-up) in this relationship. Right now it is a "relationship" in quotation marks... two guys dating, getting to know one another. But it's already a bit out of balance precisely because you're afraid of "screwing it up".

But it isn't about "screwing it up".... is it? The sexy attorney I was dating didn't "screw it up" by organizing my maps. He was just being himself, doing me a favor, doing what came natural to him. For me, though, it was a red flag. It was a very small thing but when taken with a lot of other small things, I could see that we weren't comparable. We might hang out, get sexual, even become friends.... but it wasn't going to go there, where the "there" is.

This "there" is worth talking about but isn't easy to do because what I'm really meaning is that "love" thing... that point where what's going on between two people is more than just "getting to know you" or "wanting to send time together" but actually beginning to get "intimate"... "caring" and more than that. Really wanting to not only spend time together but actually BE together.

I wonder if you can see what I'm getting at?

It is very difficult to BE with someone if I'm feeling anxious or fearful of "screwing it up". When I'm in "anxious and fearful" mode I'm cautious. I'm not BEING *there* with this other guy. I'm being "anxious and fearful" about something that may or may not happen. Right? I've already "screwed it up" by getting the cart before the horse and everything in myself asswardsback. I'm being all about *what I want (or don't want) to have happen* (imaginary future outcome) NOT about *what (actually) IS*.

If there is any secret "trick" to *dating* (as opposed to hooking up) I'd be willing to bet that it is this BEING THERE thing. The problem is we're not *there* (HERE whenever we are at any given moment) most of the time. Mostly we're always reacting to things real and imagined, second guessing ourselves and everyone else. IOW, being manipulative or trying to be.

BEING THERE... being HERE right now... just being inside myself looking out at someone else who is in front of me... with whom I'm having a conversation... is a kind of "openness". I'm "open" to just being and seeing what is. It isn't about *judgement*... it's about *awareness*. I'm just listening and talking and watching how my own inner dynamics tend to veer off away from the here and now into some fantasy or imaginary scenario, some desire or fear or both.

BEING THERE means "keeping it real". Means knowing "what is" right here, right now. Right here right now I'm having a nice dinner and a glass of wine with an attractive guy. We're having a conversation. It's a bit awkward for both of us because we don't know one another well. We both have our own set of fears, expectations, desires and so on. We both have our own histories that have led up to this moment in time, this space we're sharing together. Neither of us know what's coming next... but if we're just being HERE, being aware of one another... both on the surface and open to learning something more than what is on the surface... then *what is coming next* takes its rightful place. It isn't something to be anticipated. When it gets here, it will be as much "what is here and now" as THIS what is, is. Right?

I know, I'm being all Zen, Ramdass and Eckhart Tolle on you but I just don't know how else to say it. It is a PRACTICE. We have to practice "being here now" where ever we are. It doesn't matter whether you're sitting somewhere reading this on a device or computer... whether you're washing the dishes or making dinner or jerking off or WTFE. Every moment of our lives offers us the opportunity to practice paying attention to *what is* right here, right now.

When it comes to dating, this "being here right now", I believe, is the secret key to the whole deal. The more "here and now" I am (and the more practice I've had being "here and now" in other situations), the more relaxed, open and comfortable I'm going to be. This allows my date to be more here and now, relaxed and comfortable himself.

Now this does NOT mean things are just going to go hunky dory; that whom ever I'm with and I are going to just fall madly in love and live happily ever after. NOPE. What it means is, that by "being here," being "present" to the moment, being "open," being "attentive," I'm increasing the odds a bit. It means I'm not all caught up in my hopes and fears, not all burdened with my past baggage. More able to just see who and what this other guy is... and, hopefully, more able to let him see who and what I am. THUS more able to KNOW directly whether or not we not only have something "in common"... but whether or not there is any real interest in one another.

Does this make sense?

Just try it. Just BE THERE with whatever is going on. No (or very little) anticipation. Just let that all go or as much of it as you can. Just be there with this guy and open a space where he can just be there with you. Enjoy your time together... it may be the ONLY time you have. Then again, it may lead to even more time together. Who knows? But in any case, don't worry about it. Just let it be. Let it develop naturally or not at all.

That's my advice anyway.

[InbetweenDreams]

Well that is a lot of good advice, so thank everyone. I think learning to be more relaxed is key, the hard part for me is going to be gaining self confidence and anxiety. I was actually diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder, or as I call it a nervous wreck. I don't take any medication anymore, I absolutely hated the side effects, I try to deal with it head on. Its really about controlling your thoughts and not letting them runaway on something negative. I hate how they label things these days, make it seem like there's something God awful wrong with you when really you're just you. I have learned to cope a little better but doesn't mean I don't get worked up. I never had a lot of friends or dating at all through out school, of course this is before I realized I was gay...heck I didn't really know what gay really was for quite some time. Anxiety really limited me when I was in school when I could have perhaps explored more. I always was shy, tried not to stand out and so on. I have gotten better over the years but there's still some things that crank up the anxiety.

As far as dating goes, I kind of wing it, my parents unfortunately didn't have much advice, so I kind of picked up things here and there...I have enough sense to open doors and not to chew with my mouth open, pick my nose that sort of thing. For me it is a worry, did I forget something, ettiqutte, or did I subconciously pick my nose or something. Of course I think about did I say the right/wrong thing or make a fool of myself. So a lot of worrying about things that are really beyond my control and of course often enough I think being nervous can make things awkward or make you say something off the wall... Some guys pick up that you're nervous and I've seen a wide range of reactions, some think its cute others have a reaction of get over yourself and are quite negative.

Self-confidence is something else that has been an issue...I always seem to doubt myself, but at the same time I in a lot of cases come through. I approach a problem thinking the worst outcomes, then I end up solving it.

I'm definitely a piece of work, I think I can definitely learn to love myself more and appriciate my own self, not saying I hate myself, but I don't see my achievements as being anything grand. That probably stems from my dad...If I got bad grades it was not a good thing, but getting good grades didn't really make a whole lot of difference...I usually would get "well when I was in 7th grade we did such and such, I don't know what they're teaching in school these days but..." and so forth. So not a lot of praise in my household. I have to admit I'm a bit resentful of some things, but I do realize things could have been much worse and I got a taste of that when I was about 5-6 years old when my parents were separated.

Anyway, I'll quit ranting, everyone is a little weird and I think people including myself need to come to realize it and embrace it. Very good YouTube video on the subject of Awkwardness on Vsauce's channel...I actually recommend Vsauce to anyone with morbid curiosity about all sorts of things...