worldwide viewpoints allowed; broadmindness is welcomed

[questioning9]

I understand that there are many misconceptions about masturbation and that I understand it is a normal, healthy habit that some engage in. If such were the case, then why do some people claim that their muscles contract after they have had either nocturnal emissions or have been doing so for a while. A friend of mine claims he has been doing so since he was sixteen and since then he has not stopped. He had done it everyday and now he complains of aches in his legs. He also states that his lower back aches and his whole body is at times in distress. Now could he possibly attribute this to this healthy habit? Why does he even do it everyday?

Many taoists or healers have stated that it is a wasre of life force. They bwlieve that once jing, or semen, is used up as a result of its finite amount of the body, a wide variety of health issues may occur, one of which includes back pain, and another, chronic fatigue and depletion of acetycholine, dopamine expenditure. If such were the case, how is it healthy? It can also release endorphins but would you not want to release endorphins by running or consuming chocolates or whatever. It is, much healthier if the latter action were taken. Wouldnt too much dopamine release be detrimental to your cognition? Also a combination of both porn and masturbation and a long duration would lead to a damage of the prefrontal cortex, right?
I still feel that those guys out there who say do it as many times as you want are just lying to people. I have had a friend who, interestingly, asked his doctor if it was normal to masturbate and even tells us that gitls masturbate four times more than guys. It is odd that he wouls know this since I am not interested in female masturbation and just am not gonna do it.

Another question is is the frequency of masturbation more common among one race over another like white guys? I do not know of many asian guys who do. Sorry if I am a little prejudiced or biased, but no asian guy has ever openly stated that he does. I have had girls talk about it.

Masturbation isnt necessarily meant to ejaculate, correct? So if you masturbate without ejaculating arent u healthier than those who si since you are not wasting semen? I mean, semen is used for reproduction so imagine how many children you could have used.

Even in judaism the act of semen release creates unborn generationsm one drop of semen is like one child so the fact that you do so you are essentially creating demonic children. You can have mood probems or memory loss in the short time and havoc is wreakedm according to jewish kabbalah and maimonides.

I am presenting both a scientific viewpoint. I would like to get viewpoints from all over--be it asian, oriental, nonasian etc. Tell me what you think and why.

[princealbertofb]

There must be a reason why we (men) are wired to masturbate, and I'm sure it has to be something really instinctive. It's something to do with releasing the semen, rather than keeping it stocked up. We do not have a limited store as is the case with female eggs, so there shouldn't be a problem with ejaculation. I daresay masturbating too often and too much might make you tired or produce too much of the endorphins thus making you a bit of junky to your own chemicals, but what would explain that we invariably develop the habit without necessarily having learnt it from our peers?

Waste should probably not be one of our worries, as I said, the substance is never in short supply, even if to create an actual child the odds are really quite staggering. How many million spermatozoa do we have to ejaculate in a tiny amount of seminal fluid for just ONE of them to fertilise a female egg? All the others are therefore wasted. What should we also think of all the times we try to fertilise a female before that egg is actually there to be fertilised? Scientists look at the figures of those odds and are naturally quite awed, as we should be.

The basic fact of the matter is that we masturbate because it feels good. You can even masturbate and not ejaculate, but it all depends how urgently your body is telling you to get rid of that load, isn't it?
As an addendum, I don't think we'd want to have as many children as each spermatozoon would allow, because we'd soon be overcrowded.

[MickTheMousie]

Well personally i think 99% of what all religions say is bull shit... and i think masturbation is totally normal and a good thing, if it wasn't a good thing then it wouldn't feel good yea yea, why do we get fat then? well because our bodies aren't used to having as much food as it wants, back in the days (hundreds of years ago in most of europe) it would have to eat as much as it could when it got the oppertunity, so that if it didn't get enough food for some time it would be able to survive on the overeating it did before and you aren't wasting semen, do you even know how much semen a normal guy produces DAILY?about 1000, and i'm pretty sure you dont want to make 1000 women pregnant daily, cuz if all of us had to do that... well let's just say there wouldn't be enough women + why should gay men then produce semen if it's only to make babies? so you're gonna waste it either way, why not get some fun out of it?

[TwisttheLeaf]

... but no asian guy has ever openly stated that he does. I have had girls talk about it.

They key here is "openly stated". And here's your first.... because I jerk off regularly. Asian men have a healthy sex drive just like anyone else, and I would say most jerk off and just don't "openly state" it.

It's possible that it's a cultural thing. After all, my father (an immigrant from Korea) would be HORRIFIED to know I have openly stated I jerk off. His influences over my behavior are something I have fought against all my life... and yet, the culture he taught me growing up still lingers within my beliefs and values.

Masturbation isn't necessarily meant to ejaculate, correct? So if you masturbate without ejaculating aren't u healthier than those who do...

Ejaculation is good for the prostate. Those who don't ejaculate regularly have a higher chance of having medical problems related to their prostate. (Direct advice given to me from a Urologist.)

... since you are not wasting semen? I mean, semen is used for reproduction so imagine how many children you could have used.

IMO, there is no such thing as "wasting semen".

The fact is, when we cum, we ejaculate a shit-ton of little swimmers. IF you impregnate a woman, only ONE of those little swimmers managed to make it to home plate. Does that mean the rest of your semen is "wasted"? What if she didn't get pregnant? Does THAT mean that -all- of your semen was wasted? To me, this is a completely ridiculous theory.

This mentality also means homosexuality is wrong because your semen isn't being used to impregnate a woman.

Even in Judaism the act of semen release creates unborn generationalism one drop of semen is like one child so the fact that you do so you are essentially creating demonic children. You can have mood problems or memory loss in the short time and havoc is wreaked according to Jewish kabbalah and Maimonides.

The Jewish kabbalah and Maimonides (like the bible) were written back when we were trying to FILL THE EARTH with our race. We've essentially accomplished that, and then some. I would take their reproductive rhetoric with a grain of salt.

[Insertnamehere]

I understand that there are many misconceptions about masturbation and that I understand it is a normal, healthy habit that some engage in. If such were the case, then why do some people claim that their muscles contract after they have had either nocturnal emissions or have been doing so for a while. A friend of mine claims he has been doing so since he was sixteen and since then he has not stopped. He had done it everyday and now he complains of aches in his legs. He also states that his lower back aches and his whole body is at times in distress. Now could he possibly attribute this to this healthy habit? Why does he even do it everyday?

Many taoists or healers have stated that it is a wasre of life force. They bwlieve that once jing, or semen, is used up as a result of its finite amount of the body, a wide variety of health issues may occur, one of which includes back pain, and another, chronic fatigue and depletion of acetycholine, dopamine expenditure. If such were the case, how is it healthy? It can also release endorphins but would you not want to release endorphins by running or consuming chocolates or whatever. It is, much healthier if the latter action were taken. Wouldnt too much dopamine release be detrimental to your cognition? Also a combination of both porn and masturbation and a long duration would lead to a damage of the prefrontal cortex, right?
I still feel that those guys out there who say do it as many times as you want are just lying to people. I have had a friend who, interestingly, asked his doctor if it was normal to masturbate and even tells us that gitls masturbate four times more than guys. It is odd that he wouls know this since I am not interested in female masturbation and just am not gonna do it.

Another question is is the frequency of masturbation more common among one race over another like white guys? I do not know of many asian guys who do. Sorry if I am a little prejudiced or biased, but no asian guy has ever openly stated that he does. I have had girls talk about it.

Masturbation isnt necessarily meant to ejaculate, correct? So if you masturbate without ejaculating arent u healthier than those who si since you are not wasting semen? I mean, semen is used for reproduction so imagine how many children you could have used.

Even in judaism the act of semen release creates unborn generationsm one drop of semen is like one child so the fact that you do so you are essentially creating demonic children. You can have mood probems or memory loss in the short time and havoc is wreakedm according to jewish kabbalah and maimonides.

I am presenting both a scientific viewpoint. I would like to get viewpoints from all over--be it asian, oriental, nonasian etc. Tell me what you think and why.

Let's get one thing straight. You are not offering any kind of scientific point of view. You are throwing a few chemical names and a few symptoms of what could be any kind of ailment (if it's an aiment at all) without citing any sources other than religious nonsense, which any person with a brain will tell you, it's bullshit (when your goal is to establish a scientific base for a topic, that is).

The first thing you have to do if you want to keep any kind of serious conversation of a scientific nature is to leave religion aside as a valid source.

This is, admittedly, not a "broadedmind" approach. Science and religion are, forcefully, mutually exclusive, I'm afraid.

Has your friend seen a physician? If not, what kind of base do you have to put masturbation as a cause for the symptoms he has? Get back to us when you have a professional's opinion.

You don't give any kind of citation to the statement that masturbation or porn produce damage to the frontal cortex.

You proposed conceptions that are flawed, being derived from religious indoctrination here, so let's adress that.

Semen and the cell components are not finite. They are continously produced (and undergo degradation and re-production when not used)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK26914/

There are close to 100 million sperm cells in one ejaculation, only one of which is necessary for successful reproduction.

So, you are not going to run out of semen or reproductive capability any time soon, no matter how much you masturbate (or have sex, for that matter eh?)

It is also your assumption that everyone wants to have kids. I don't and many other people don't.

Now, let's fix some conceptual mistakes about neurotransmitters

Dopamine is not finite. It's constantly being produced, released, degraded and produced again.

Dopamine and other related catecholamines are derived from the aminoacid Tyrosine (and the later from the essential aminoacid Phenylalanine). Phenylalanine is obtained strictly from diet, the source being proteins of any part of the food chain. Phenylalanine has its primary source in the secondary metabolism of plants (from which it passes to the food chain).

Then, converted to Tyrosine (or using dietary obtained Tyrosine) it serves as the source for catecholamines



As long as you have protein intake in your diet, you will have catecholamines. If you don't have a protein intake or eat at all you'll be dead long before you run out of dopamine anyway.

Now, overproduction and release of dopamine can happen, but that's why the organism has in place negative feedback mechanisms (for pretty much every molecule it produces) to signal a stop in the production and release when needed.



In the neuron, it works like the above and below images indicate



This concept is called Homeostasis, that is, the group of mechanisms the cells and organs use to maintain stable parameters of pH, temperature, chemical concentration and production, etc, etc.

So, to sum it up, masturbation will not have any of the effects you describe.


Now, off to the cultural implications.

You say you haven't heard any Asian openly state they masturbate. Well, let me tell you, I don't go around telling everyone I know I masturbate either. But I do.

That people don't tell you they do something is no proof that they don't do it.

In my region of the world (Latin America) Roman Catholicism has had a major impact on conservative attitudes and social perceptions of what is right and wrong. As such, sexual topics like this one are still very much taboo (although there has been increasing liberalization in the past 2 decades) so, not many people here would directly talk about masturbation or admit to it in a public conversation. I would probably not bring up the topic other than here online and with close friends. Never with my family, that's for sure.

Perhaps there is something similarly restrictive, whatever the source is, that happens in Asian culture.

But one thing is clear to me, masturbation is more prevalent and normal that people will openly let you know, as you will find out from the comments you've received here. It also doesn't have the effects you attribute to it.

[TwisttheLeaf]

Let's get one thing straight. You are not offering any kind of scientific point of view. You are throwing a few chemical names and a few symptoms of what could be any kind of ailment (if it's an aiment at all) without citing any sources other than religious nonsense, which any person with a brain will tell you, it's bullshit (when your goal is to establish a scientific base for a topic, that is).

The first thing you have to do if you want to keep any kind of serious conversation of a scientific nature is to leave religion aside as a valid source.

This is, admittedly, not a "broadedmind" approach. Science and religion are, forcefully, mutually exclusive, I'm afraid.

Has your friend seen a physician? If not, what kind of base do you have to put masturbation as a cause for the symptoms he has? Get back to us when you have a professional's opinion.

You don't give any kind of citation to the statement that masturbation or porn produce damage to the frontal cortex.

You proposed conceptions that are flawed, being derived from religious indoctrination here, so let's adress that.

Semen and the cell components are not finite. They are continously produced (and undergo degradation and re-production when not used)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK26914/

There are close to 100 million sperm cells in one ejaculation, only one of which is necessary for successful reproduction.

So, you are not going to run out of semen or reproductive capability any time soon, no matter how much you masturbate (or have sex, for that matter eh?)

It is also your assumption that everyone wants to have kids. I don't and many other people don't.

Now, let's fix some conceptual mistakes about neurotransmitters

Dopamine is not finite. It's constantly being produced, released, degraded and produced again.

Dopamine and other related catecholamines are derived from the aminoacid Tyrosine (and the later from the essential aminoacid Phenylalanine). Phenylalanine is obtained strictly from diet, the source being proteins of any part of the food chain. Phenylalanine has its primary source in the secondary metabolism of plants (from which it passes to the food chain).

Then, converted to Tyrosine (or using dietary obtained Tyrosine) it serves as the source for catecholamines



As long as you have protein intake in your diet, you will have catecholamines. If you don't have a protein intake or eat at all you'll be dead long before you run out of dopamine anyway.

Now, overproduction and release of dopamine can happen, but that's why the organism has in place negative feedback mechanisms (for pretty much every molecule it produces) to signal a stop in the production and release when needed.



In the neuron, it works like the above and below images indicate



This concept is called Homeostasis, that is, the group of mechanisms the cells and organs use to maintain stable parameters of pH, temperature, chemical concentration and production, etc, etc.

So, to sum it up, masturbation will not have any of the effects you describe.


Now, off to the cultural implications.

You say you haven't heard any Asian openly state they masturbate. Well, let me tell you, I don't go around telling everyone I know I masturbate either. But I do.

That people don't tell you they do something is no proof that they don't do it.

In my region of the world (Latin America) Roman Catholicism has had a major impact on conservative attitudes and social perceptions of what is right and wrong. As such, sexual topics like this one are still very much taboo (although there has been increasing liberalization in the past 2 decades) so, not many people here would directly talk about masturbation or admit to it in a public conversation. I would probably not bring up the topic other than here online and with close friends. Never with my family, that's for sure.

Perhaps there is something similarly restrictive, whatever the source is, that happens in Asian culture.

But one thing is clear to me, masturbation is more prevalent and normal that people will openly let you know, as you will find out from the comments you've received here. It also doesn't have the effects you attribute to it.

And, my heart flutters like a schoolgirl's.................. in a completely platonic way, of course.

[InbetweenDreams]

...

Many taoists or healers have stated that it is a wasre of life force. They bwlieve that once jing, or semen, is used up as a result of its finite amount of the body, a wide variety of health issues may occur, one of which includes back pain, and another, chronic fatigue and depletion of acetycholine, dopamine expenditure. If such were the case, how is it healthy? It can also release endorphins but would you not want to release endorphins by running or consuming chocolates or whatever. It is, much healthier if the latter action were taken. Wouldnt too much dopamine release be detrimental to your cognition? Also a combination of both porn and masturbation and a long duration would lead to a damage of the prefrontal cortex, right?
I still feel that those guys out there who say do it as many times as you want are just lying to people. I have had a friend who, interestingly, asked his doctor if it was normal to masturbate and even tells us that gitls masturbate four times more than guys. It is odd that he wouls know this since I am not interested in female masturbation and just am not gonna do it.

Another question is is the frequency of masturbation more common among one race over another like white guys? I do not know of many asian guys who do. Sorry if I am a little prejudiced or biased, but no asian guy has ever openly stated that he does. I have had girls talk about it.

Masturbation isnt necessarily meant to ejaculate, correct? So if you masturbate without ejaculating arent u healthier than those who si since you are not wasting semen? I mean, semen is used for reproduction so imagine how many children you could have used.

Even in judaism the act of semen release creates unborn generationsm one drop of semen is like one child so the fact that you do so you are essentially creating demonic children. You can have mood probems or memory loss in the short time and havoc is wreakedm according to jewish kabbalah and maimonides.

I am presenting both a scientific viewpoint. I would like to get viewpoints from all over--be it asian, oriental, nonasian etc. Tell me what you think and why.

Well I think the key thing here is "taoists." In my opinion it is no different than in Christian religion saying masturbation is a sin.

Scientifically there are health benefits but mind you those are in controlled studies and don't include individual cases...like the guy who jerks off 6 times a day.

My experience. The most I have ever masturbated in a 24 hour period was probably around 6 times and I later regretted it lol my dick was kind of sore that all that. More times you try to masturbate (and mind you with ejaculation) the longer it usually takes so there's an increased likelihood of chaffing.

Normally I might masturbate once a day, sometimes I don't for 2-3 days, then I might do it 2-3 times in a day. I seem to go through horny cycles.

My guess is that Asians might find out hard core porn totally disgusting?

[Insertnamehere]

And, my heart flutters like a schoolgirl's.................. in a completely platonic way, of course.

Yeah, I don't want trouble with Gideon

[meridannight]

i think all men do it, regardless of race, religion, marital status, and regardless of what they say.

actually, it is unhealthy not to do it, and most men's doctors advise to do it for health reasons (prostate). spermatogenesis occurs on a continual basis throughout a man's life. it's not a waste, it's meant to be replenished and reproduced. (unless you think you can actually father millions of babies, it is not an argument to claim it is a waste). the ancients who came up with this speculation only thought it viable because they didn't know any better.

regardless of all this, even if i didn't know these facts, i trust my body and my physical sensations above everything else in life. they are my guide in life and have proven to be absolutely correct. my body tells me what is good by pleasurable sensations and what is bad through noxious stimuli. it is the mind that pollutes the body, not the other way around. (this thread is a prime example of such a case).

[Gideon]

*All innocence*
Who me??