Madonna and Gay Men 30+.

[XRIMO]

Well, I'm an odd duck when it comes to almost anything, music included. So I don't think I'm really relevant to this topic... since I prefer music without lyrics (with a few exceptions of course). So I personally do not listen to Madonna of my own free will.

[No1Smila]

Well, I'm an odd duck when it comes to almost anything, music included. So I don't think I'm really relevant to this topic... since I prefer music without lyrics (with a few exceptions of course). So I personally do not listen to Madonna of my own free will.

.

Thank you for your response, can I ask is their any particular reason you do not enjoy music with lyrics? It is quite an interesting point.

Regards,

Charlotte.

[XRIMO]

Well, I guess that I like atmospheric music and calm music. I also like Classical, but I prefer more modern orchestral stuff. Its hard to explain my preferences beyond just saying "its just what I like".

[Shadow]

I think one of the reasons for Madonna's popularity amongst the gay sector is that she has, at a number of points in her career, openly advocated standing up for yourself; for what you believe in; expressing what is your valid right to be here; and being completely UNcompromising when it comes to backing away from simply existing, because other people find you to be distasteful on any level ...

... so aside from the quality of her music, which has been undoubtedly seen a number of times during her career, Madonna's stance on life in general has attracted the respect of many homosexuals, as it taps directly into some of the issues that we face on a regular basis ...

Having said that I think most people find Madonna, having re-invented herself as many times as she has, to be a character that they can say they preferred at *this* time or *that* time ... I don't know *that* many people that are obssessed with her from beginning to end like ...

mile:.

!?!?! Shadow !?!?!

[No1Smila]

Thank you so much for your response, it is proving to be really helpful. I have got a few more questions on the topic I would like to ask, it would be much appreciated if you could answer them for me. No doubt their will be a lot more as my research continues but I wouldn't want to overload everyone lol. Below is some points that key theorists into the topic have made, I would really like to know how far you agree or disagree with what they are saying.

1) Current research has suggested "identification with women by gay men is the opportunity for experiencing sexual and romantic desire of men". In your opinion would you say that gay men use females as a vehicle for romance and sexual pleasure?


2) Dyer, another theorist has suggested that it is a way of refusing the social construction of gender. Believing himself, that gender is not something we are born with, but something that society teaches us, and therefore teaches us how we should act, feminine or masculine. For Dyer, who is a gay theorist himself, he believes that his association with females is a way of rebelling against society’s norm of men being straight, masculine and aspiring to be like ‘men’. How far would you agree or disagree with his theory?

3) It has also been suggested that through Madonna's use of drag and masquerade, she is in fact, reinforcing male dominant ideologies. Do you agree with this, and if so in what way? Again, please comment even if you disagree.

Any comments on the points that I have made are very welcome, even if you agree or disagree with what is being said I would be interested in knowing your thoughts and reasoning for your replies. Again, I can’t thank you enough!

[fjp999]

[COLOR="Purple"]WoW, professionals get paid to think about all that?

I would say WTF to all three![/COLOR]

[marshlander]

...1) Current research has suggested "identification with women by gay men is the opportunity for experiencing sexual and romantic desire of men". In your opinion would you say that gay men use females as a vehicle for romance and sexual pleasure?

I do not recognise this at all.

2)Dyer, another theorist has suggested that it is a way of refusing the social construction of gender. Believing himself, that gender is not something we are born with, but something that society teaches us, and therefore teaches us how we should act, feminine or masculine. For Dyer, who is a gay theorist himself, he believes that his association with females is a way of rebelling against society’s norm of men being straight, masculine and aspiring to be like ‘men’. How far would you agree or disagree with his theory?

I'd disagree with this too. If I associate with females it is because I find them interesting to talk to.

3) It has also been suggested that through Madonna's use of drag and masquerade, she is in fact, reinforcing male dominant ideologies. Do you agree with this, and if so in what way? Again, please comment even if you disagree.

The "male dominant idelogies" you mention are surely more apparent in the confidence and assertiveness with which she carries out her performances and business activities? One cannot imagine Madonna acting coy, or bursting into tears to achieve an objective, if you can forgive further stereotyping :eek:

[fredv3b]

In reply to No1Smila's original posting,
Those are some very interesting questions, to which I really don't know the answer. I am a gay man, but not quite yet 30+, but have never had any real interest in Madonna, some of her music has been fairly passable. I do however offer this question in return, what is a 'gay icon' anyway?

1) Current research has suggested "identification with women by gay men is the opportunity for experiencing sexual and romantic desire of men". In your opinion would you say that gay men use females as a vehicle for romance and sexual pleasure?

I don't identify with women and, frankly, I don't understand gay men who do.

2) Dyer, another theorist has suggested that it is a way of refusing the social construction of gender. Believing himself, that gender is not something we are born with, but something that society teaches us, and therefore teaches us how we should act, feminine or masculine. For Dyer, who is a gay theorist himself, he believes that his association with females is a way of rebelling against society’s norm of men being straight, masculine and aspiring to be like ‘men’. How far would you agree or disagree with his theory?

I'd disagree with this too. If I associate with females it is because I find them interesting to talk to.

I have to agree that gender is, at least in large part, a social construction. Dyer (whoever he is) may well wish to rebel against masculinity and does so by association with women. I, however, like masculinity (both in myself and in other guys), I do not wish to rebel against it, only loosen its association with being straight. If and when I associate with women it is for the same reasons as Marshlander.

3) It has also been suggested that through Madonna's use of drag and masquerade, she is in fact, reinforcing male dominant ideologies. Do you agree with this, and if so in what way? Again, please comment even if you disagree.

I believe that it is possible to over-analyse a highly successful and lucrative pop-music act.