Orlando: An unexpected point of view

[Insertnamehere]

but I think the thing you don't seem to understand is how much the islamic community demonizes us. As far as I was aware an orlando mosque in 2013 preached the death of gays.

Oh yes and a Christian minister in Sacramento celebrated the attacks and said "they deserved it and Orlando is a safer place without them"

Lovely thoughts from a non-Islamic source. What a wonder that Christianity is no longer a dominant part in how politics are made. In some places.

Doesn't stop them from pursuing every measure possible to make any member of the LGBT community a second class citizen and sub-human, with the according restriction in rights and freedoms.

All of this possible for the sake of freedom of speech and tolerance of religious groups, which they tend to appeal to as long as its about preserving the white and/or christian prerrogatives. That same support for the basic freedoms tends to fly out the window when talking about any of the other parts of the society.

You don't need to travel to the Middle East to find threats to the LGBT community, they are much closer to home and, what's worse, possessing legal means to undermine us.

you now have to realize that Islamic mass shootings(which usually have a higher kill count) are now happening more than the ones done by white males..

Mateen killed more people because he was a trained shoot, which is seldom seen in grassroot attacks. It doesn't have anything to do with any potential or real Islamic affiliation. An American born citizen working for a security firm.

Question is why someone like him can pass a psychological test and is allowed to work in the field he did, having acces to the kind of weapons he did.

[InbetweenDreams]

You're not American, so just drop it please.

We like our guns here.

Do I have a gun? None of your fucking business.

We as gays have to protect ourselves.

I'm sorry, I'd rather be hated than pitied.

Yes we like our guns. While it may be silly that someone outside of the US have an opinion on gun policy in the country we live in I would encourage our American values, particularly freedom of expression. While I don't always agree on everything [MENTION=18457]LONDONER[/MENTION] says on gun policy and so on not about to tell him or anyone else that they can't voice their opinion on an issue -- American or foreign, even if it is an unpopular position.

My stance is that gun control has its place, it can prevent some problems but it will never eliminate every crime committed. I mean China just had some one stab kill a bunch of people so there you are, guns aren't the sole problem. It is society and the people that are being turned into these monsters.

I'm pretty sure you have a gun...and that's fine...no one cares, unless you're a psycho anyway. Why would it matter if someone knew you had a gun? How would they know you're not a nutcase that's about to shoot up a bunch of people? Maybe we should know who has a gun? Are you worried that big government is going to take your guns?

I have no doubt that in the US there is that group of people who would love to see guns totally outlawed, but I don't think that is popular at the moment. Those people simply lack insight. If someone is wanting to get a gun to kill someone, they'll find one -- legal or not, it's that simple. Might make it harder for some criminals to get a hold of one but still the problem will always remain.

Less gun deaths does not equal no deaths. Until that can be assured gun control is simply a false sense of security and something people can point the finger at. However, guns also aren't candy either so they shouldn't be treated as such either.

Gays need to protect themselves, as well as everyone else. I also like to keep a low profile. Making out with my bf in the middle of town isn't something I would do, but other people are fine with doing it....it's their choice. Just because we are free to do as well please, make out with a bf or whatever PDA doesn't make it wise. I rarely see straight couples make out in public, it happens, but it almost seems a lot of guys expect PDA which in my opinion is absurd. Then again I'm not the most outgoing person either, so that's that.

I'd rather be hated and not pitied either, but if I had to chose I'd rather not draw too much attention.

[LONDONER]

You're not American, so just drop it please.

So, I'm not allowed to post any opinion on any foreign policy apart from British? Hardly democratic is it?

[Emiliano]

Emiliano I see the point you're making here, I even made an account to respond to your post. I also understand your point about demonization, but I think the thing you don't seem to understand is how much the islamic community demonizes us. As far as I was aware an orlando mosque in 2013 preached the death of
gays.

We as gays need to unite against this universal threat of Islam. In Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia gay are thrown off buildings. Even though like you said earlier how most mass shootings in the united states are by white males, you now have to realize that Islamic mass shootings(which usually have a higher kill count) are now happening more than the ones done by white males.

I am a frequenter of gay bars and am now scared by this possibility of it being shot up by another islamist. Christianity has had many reforms in the past decades as opposed to Islam which allows no reform. Islam at this point is a 7th century desert religion which is prone to bigotry. I can not stand with islam or for islam in such a way. I'm scared that another shooting will happen against our community and the lgbtq community will act in the same way.

I'm sorry for going on a ramble but I'm just legitimately scared.

The Koran praises the death of infidels and sodomites.

This is not okay.

I've had a long week and I'm not in the best of moods. And I'm finding that I just don't have the patience to respond to what you wrote, because it basically boils down to the exact same bullshit I was just calling out. But I also really don't get off on snapping at people, especially people who I know nothing about and have had no interaction with before. So I'm going to ask you a few questions instead.

What would it mean to unify against the universal threat of Islam? The universal thread of Islam, not religious extremism, apparently. What actions would you want to see taken? What would that really look like in American society?
And what does that mean for gay men and woman who are Muslim? Are you calling for a ban on them from entering gay bars, attending lbgtq events?
And what would that mean for the Muslim people who love and respect and accept gay people?

And finally, what do you think leads to radicalization? And what is the most effective way of combating Islamic extremism? Short of genocide on the scale of over a billion people, of course.

[Emiliano]

Yet more information on Mateen:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36534...ine_180616

On a similar note:
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2...ntent=link

[InbetweenDreams]

Why should the government care if a law abiding American has a gun or not?

I'm just tired. I really am. Gays of all people not wanting to arm themselves, especially after what happened.

Homophobic bigots want to kill us in this country. I feel alone and nobody understands the pain.

I don't think it matters so much that the government knows. Then again, you have a photo ID, a driver's license, social security. I mean what business does the government have knowing who someone is?

I think there is a fine line when it is ok for a government to control access to things, like semi-automatic weapons, assault rifles and so on. Doesn't mean the government should use the data to track people, even though they do anyway.

I do agree. I think more citizens should be arming themselves. That being a gun to just plan old self defense. While I don't think some nutcase is going to walk in somewhere and shoot me, yeah at least you would have a chance. There's only so much you can prepare for.

Yeah there are a good portion of homophobic assholes who think the bible or some religious scripture says we need to be killed. Firstly I think the term homophobic is a misnomer because they aren't scared, it just bothers them. I mean just imagine a guy sucking another guy's dick, or anal sex for the love of sweet Mary Jesus... Yeah the devil made me fuck him in the ass... Religious idiots just make me cringe and to think that religion is at least half responsible for all the world's hate...against anything for that matter. The bottom line is it just bothers some people, either they have some repressed sexual feelings for the same sex or they're just extremely shallow, small minded people....both exist and both are equally spreading hate.

The real question is why in recent history (20...50 years?) have people been getting increasingly more violent with hate crimes and mass shootings? Is there too much fluoride in the water? Is it the internet? Facebook? It's not guns, guns aren't really new. Mental health, possible but there have been crazy people for a long time.

Unfortunately I see this being a long slow battle, probably worse than the civil rights movement in the 1960's....

What's funny, I seldom meet anyone who really has a problem with gays, African Americans, women in general....they exist and you better believe those people are voting for Trump. Now the question is will Trump do all the things they want which is anti-LGBT and everything else socially progressive. Trump is a player and he is playing the GOP hard, so who knows....says a lot of bigoted crap... I mean someone who says "There's my African American," hardly is someone I would consider for president.

[Emiliano]

So you think Trump voters are racist and homophobic?

I'm voting for Trump and I'm black and gay, so.

And seemingly with a lot of internalized issues relating to both.

[InbetweenDreams]

So you think Trump voters are racist and homophobic?

I'm voting for Trump and I'm black and gay, so.

No that quote came out of Donald Trump's mouth...

However, that being said a lot of his supporters are very much so bigoted. No not all them are bigots, some are dumbasses too.

[InbetweenDreams]

I can't agree with you. Everyone in this world is selfish and only looks out for themselves.

On both sides.

Can't agree with me on what? That a lot of Trump's supporters are bigots?

People are selfish, that's nothing new. I think that yes most of the time people are out for themselves. It is a matter of how people go about doing it. Trump forcibly removes residents from their homes in Scotland to put in a hotel and golf course, there's a documentary on it on Netflix, long before he was going to run for office. Clinton deletes emails, involved in a whole bunch of scandals. Maybe I try to be nicer to my friends so they'll invite me over more often... Maybe polite to the officer who pulls me over for speeding so I don't get a ticket... Those are all in a way acts of selfishness, the key here are you being selfish with malicious intent? Are you ripping off homeowners in by allowing them to borrow more money than they can repay so you can get extra commission?

You make being selfish seem like it is a evil and awful thing, it certainly can be but it is human nature. I do firmly believe that one can be selfish to a point where it is not overstepping into someone else's space. A good quote is "Look out for number one but don't step on number two."

However I am curious why exactly you like Trump....aside from not liking Hillary and Sanders. Perhaps in another thread since this discussion is veering way off topic.

Bottom line is guns: Gun control has its place, but doesn't address the issue with the increasing trend in mass shootings. Gays and people in general should exercise their right to the 2nd amendment and get the proper training, can't emphasize that enough, to use firearms. Only thing worse than a murderer is someone who doesn't know how to use a firearm properly....that's another way for someone to get killed.

[Cuddly]

You can keep your guns and still support better (existing? Lol) gun control.
There's nothing wrong with owning a hunting rifle or whatever. I just firmly believe that acquiring such a weapon should require: training in the form of a license, secure safe for keeping the guns at your home, out of reach of children, frequent home inspections to verify the guns' safe and serial numbers.
Under no circumstances should a person be allowed to own a weapon designed for warfare, particularly not if said person is on the FBI watchlist.
Nobody in the USA needs an assault rifle for selfdefense.

Imagine if the USA was just a state in the world and we applied the 2nd ammendment to every country. Personally I wouldn't be interested in my state's right to nuclear weapons, but I can imagine some Asian and middleeastern states who would be all about the liberty to purchase and own nukes. Just for selfdefense.
Completely absurd, right? That's how the rest of the world sees US gun policies.