Orlando: An unexpected point of view

[LONDONER]

This time from Muslims:

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/muslim-view-lg...07437.html

[Emiliano]

Thats what happens when we as a culture demonize and generalize an entire group of people. A massive group of individuals - over a billion people. We assume that they are all motivated by one thing, that they all think with a solitary mind, that they are not complex human beings with multiple identities, motives, and ways of interpreting and relating with the world. And we erase from our minds, and from the narrative we repeat, those who don't fit into what our preconceived notion of how they should act and believe and react. That Muslim people condemn this, that gay Muslims exist and have opinions, that not every Muslim is eager for their chance to blow themselves up in protest of the freedoms we enjoy in the Western world... that Muslim people themselves are often the victims of radical Islam... that should not be unexpected.

There's nothing surprising or unexpected about the perspective shared in that video and that article. And gay people of all ethnicities and beliefs - or lack thereof, should not allow what happened in Orlando to be hijacked by politicians who want to use it to instill fear and hate into the minds of the broader population. The same technique is easily used against us too. Being gay and Muslim are not mutually exclusive. Homophobia is not exclusive to Islam, neither is the use of religious text to justify horrible atrocities committed against other people.

Its just that in a country where a lot of people think they have a god given right to deny gay people services and goods, and feel they should be entitled by their own religious views to deny us a lot more than that - its easier to make the enemy here Islam, rather than homophobia.

Most mass shootings in the USA are committed by American born, white men. But when that happens no one blames their race or their religion. No one talks about how dangerous white people are, or blames the inherent violence of masculinity or demands that we have a national conversation about the threat that they pose to our culture and society. People fall over themselves trying to figure out why that quiet guy who kept to himself did such a terrible thing, or to explain it away by the fact he was unstable and off his meds, or they wonder what it is about society that causes so many young white men to feel so alienated these days. And how can we as a society provide better support and mental health services to all these angry white men.

But the second it is a brown or black person, an immigrant, then they are thugs and criminals and terrorists. They must have been motivated strictly by their race or their religion- or whatever it is that makes this person an "other" - surely that is the one thing that is to blame here.

What really leads to a perspective such as the one offered in the video and the article to be seen as unexpected is the same thing that leads to horrible acts of violence.
A complete failure to see people unlike ourselves as individuals - as complex, multifaceted humans -because once you dehumanize another, the ability to hate them based off of one aspect of their identity alone is endless.

[zenmaster]

Emiliano I see the point you're making here, I even made an account to respond to your post. I also understand your point about demonization, but I think the thing you don't seem to understand is how much the islamic community demonizes us. As far as I was aware an orlando mosque in 2013 preached the death of
gays.

We as gays need to unite against this universal threat of Islam. In Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia gay are thrown off buildings. Even though like you said earlier how most mass shootings in the united states are by white males, you now have to realize that Islamic mass shootings(which usually have a higher kill count) are now happening more than the ones done by white males.

I am a frequenter of gay bars and am now scared by this possibility of it being shot up by another islamist. Christianity has had many reforms in the past decades as opposed to Islam which allows no reform. Islam at this point is a 7th century desert religion which is prone to bigotry. I can not stand with islam or for islam in such a way. I'm scared that another shooting will happen against our community and the lgbtq community will act in the same way.

I'm sorry for going on a ramble but I'm just legitimately scared.

The Koran praises the death of infidels and sodomites.

This is not okay.

[matty7]

I think its a great gesture for this Muslim leader to go the extra mile than just condemning this massacre of human life , but to show solidarity and support to the lgbt community and to stand against acts like this. I just hope people read this and realise that it was a man who carried out these murders and not an entire religion

[mrex]

im not sure what else any group could say than being against what happened...

i rather would like see than some acts than just words.

[InbetweenDreams]

Thats what happens when we as a culture demonize and generalize an entire group of people. A massive group of individuals - over a billion people. We assume that they are all motivated by one thing, that they all think with a solitary mind, that they are not complex human beings with multiple identities, motives, and ways of interpreting and relating with the world. And we erase from our minds, and from the narrative we repeat, those who don't fit into what our preconceived notion of how they should act and believe and react. That Muslim people condemn this, that gay Muslims exist and have opinions, that not every Muslim is eager for their chance to blow themselves up in protest of the freedoms we enjoy in the Western world... that Muslim people themselves are often the victims of radical Islam... that should not be unexpected.

There's nothing surprising or unexpected about the perspective shared in that video and that article. And gay people of all ethnicities and beliefs - or lack thereof, should not allow what happened in Orlando to be hijacked by politicians who want to use it to instill fear and hate into the minds of the broader population. The same technique is easily used against us too. Being gay and Muslim are not mutually exclusive. Homophobia is not exclusive to Islam, neither is the use of religious text to justify horrible atrocities committed against other people.

Its just that in a country where a lot of people think they have a god given right to deny gay people services and goods, and feel they should be entitled by their own religious views to deny us a lot more than that - its easier to make the enemy here Islam, rather than homophobia.

Most mass shootings in the USA are committed by American born, white men. But when that happens no one blames their race or their religion. No one talks about how dangerous white people are, or blames the inherent violence of masculinity or demands that we have a national conversation about the threat that they pose to our culture and society. People fall over themselves trying to figure out why that quiet guy who kept to himself did such a terrible thing, or to explain it away by the fact he was unstable and off his meds, or they wonder what it is about society that causes so many young white men to feel so alienated these days. And how can we as a society provide better support and mental health services to all these angry white men.

But the second it is a brown or black person, an immigrant, then they are thugs and criminals and terrorists. They must have been motivated strictly by their race or their religion- or whatever it is that makes this person an "other" - surely that is the one thing that is to blame here.

What really leads to a perspective such as the one offered in the video and the article to be seen as unexpected is the same thing that leads to horrible acts of violence.
A complete failure to see people unlike ourselves as individuals - as complex, multifaceted humans -because once you dehumanize another, the ability to hate them based off of one aspect of their identity alone is endless.

From what I can tell, aside from gender, I think all races are pretty much proportional to what they are in the population. So why are guys doing all the shootings? Mental health? Too many xbox games?

So the question is why the MEDIA pulls the same horseshit every time, that and all the dog shit politicians follow suit? Because everyone gets offended and everyone stays tuned in. They know everyone is outraged and in shock and it is profitable for them to have you on edge.

People are sheep, or sheeple. If the media didn't say it, or put the idea in someone's head then people wouldn't have those views. So they play the same anti-racial, anti-muslin, anti-whatever...pro-gun anti-gun rhetoric to get you ready to leap out of your chair and go club the next black person or the next muslin. All this while the poor widdle "Stanford swimmer" gets a slap on the wrist for raping a girl by a dumpster.

Honestly I think the truth is that yes, there are white men who are positions of great power who are calling the shots in this country. They feel privileged, they feel superior and they do feel that other races, black, brown, whatever are beneath them. That's why that cockroach of a man is getting 6 months in prison and not 20 years (actually I think the maximum in CA is 14...either way). However, that being said I don't think every white guy would have just got a slap on the wrist. I have no criminal records, but I'm not an elite, wealthy white guy, they'd throw the book at me and probably wouldn't have made the news. They should have threw the book at him and it shouldn't have been covered the way it did.

The other thing is religion. I see a lot of anti-Christian rhetoric that comes from a few of my gay friends who are also Atheist. I'm not an expert here but I feel that the proportion of extremists among all religions is about the same and equally nutty. It's just the there haven't been any recent cases (that I know of) where Christians are going around killing Muslims and so forth. Not yet anyway. Muslims get the attention they get because of the extremists. So you can get people like Rush Limbaugh to promote the idea that everyone who is a Muslim is rotten and evil and think we all should die. To someone in their 50's and 60's and is a white conservative, they'll eat it up. They're set in their ways and their position is not going to change.

The other thing is a good bit of the Muslim world has been bombed the shit out of by the west. It also gets a lot of media coverage over there too, pretty good reasons to hate a group of people. I mean we can speculate on what the media has allowed us to know, but I'm pretty sure we're just getting for the most part a singular point of view that what "we" are doing is for the greater good when I'm willing the bet it isn't. I do think that the US in a big way has created the mess, of course there's Russia in the mix too.

I'm not saying what the US does is evil but you can't tell me that most of those assholes in Washington don't have some blood on their hands. Pretty sad that is what it all boils down to, war and destruction and the acquisition of resources to they control the prices.

Getting back on point. I think it is sick and unhuman that the media continues this trend and then the politicians want to go out and use the deaths of 100 people to try to buy votes, push their views gun control, gun rights, etc. Go for it, have all the gun control you want. You can ban guns for that matter. However, someone who wants to inflict that kind of harm trust me they will find a way to do it, successfully or not. Over in China a guy with a knife killed and hurt 27 people. Guns just do it quicker and any scumbag can pull a trigger. Also doesn't stop someone from illegally obtaining guns and ammunition. Meth is a big problem up here, for some unknown reason, people cook it and sell it. Completely illegal and people kill themselves doing that drug.

I do agree completely that weapons that can fire off tons of rounds per second and can be reloaded quickly shouldn't be in the hands of everyday citizens. Either ban them or make it expensive to be specially licensed to keep these sort of weapons. I lean towards banning those weapons. I don't think there's any way to keep guns out of the wrong people's hands no matter what. I do think we need to figure out why there are more mass shootings like this today because the trend seems to be that they're going to happen more often and I don't think it is the guns.

I don't think there is a solid answer, gun control does have its place but like anything else it has its limitations. Could reduce the crimes but there's always loopholes and oversights. It is very painful to see that someone who is 20 years old gets their life taken from them and it is impossible to get my head around why someone could be motivated or disturbed to commit such an act. It is simply beyond comprehension.

It is a sobering reminder that life is very precious, short and can be taken away at an instant. I wish I had a better answer but I think in the end it is a stale mate no matter what one tries.

[JohnMusic]

i spent a week in abu dhabi during ramadan in 1991 and found nothing hateful about these people.

[LONDONER]

Yet more information on Mateen:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36534...ine_180616

[Cuddly]

I'm glad he sees it that way. I've always believed we minorities should gave each others' backs.

He (the shooter) was a tragic closet case who snapped. Maybe it's time to change gun policies?

[LONDONER]

I'm glad he sees it that way. I've always believed we minorities should gave each others' backs.

He (the shooter) was a tragic closet case who snapped. Maybe it's time to change gun policies?

A fat chance of that happening, especially if Trump becomes president.