In praise of western democracy

[marshlander]

I've just been reading more horrific tales of treatment of our gay brothers in Iraq. There seems to have been something of a purge on gay men in recent times, spurred by families, society in general and religious dogma in particular. Whilst I was never a supporter of the invasion I had no idea that things could turn out to be this dreadful - the torture and murder of increasing numbers of gay men while the authorities look the other way. Spread the news. Tell everyone how proud we are to have brought western democracy to the people of Iraq. What an indictment that gay men were actually safer under Sadam!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

BBC NEWS | UK | Fears over Iraq gay killing spate

Hot Topics: Gay Iraqis Facing Horrific Torture

[Dan1089]

Well,nothing good can ever come out of invading other people's countries.The extent of reach and effect of "Western democracy" still remains to be seen anyhow.

[alex85]

I've just been reading more horrific tales of treatment of our gay brothers in Iraq. There seems to have been something of a purge on gay men in recent times, spurred by families, society in general and religious dogma in particular. Whilst I was never a supporter of the invasion I had no idea that things could turn out to be this dreadful - the torture and murder of increasing numbers of gay men while the authorities look the other way. Spread the news. Tell everyone how proud we are to have brought western democracy to the people of Iraq. What an indictment that gay men were actually safer under Sadam!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

BBC NEWS | UK | Fears over Iraq gay killing spate

Hot Topics: Gay Iraqis Facing Horrific Torture

How do you know they were safer under Sadam? Do you think terrorist regims keep a count of their victims? I dont think so.
And yes, I happen to think we should be proud of bringing our western values to this nations that live under uncivilized laws and religious terror. Like it or not the europeans had a huge civilizing role in the world even though the means of doing that werent the greatest but in the long term everyone benefited from from that.That's a undeniable historic fact.

[Low__x]

Democracy will fall soon enough.
Think: Ancient Rome was democratic, where are they at now? </3

But, it's better than totalitarianism, I guess.
Good luck?

[fredv3b]

What an indictment that gay men were actually safer under Sadam!!

How do you know they were safer under Sadam? Do you think terrorist regims keep a count of their victims? I dont think so.

The Baathist regime was indeed a terrorist regime, however it was a functional government its violence was primarily directed against those it considered a threat or as a public display for the benefit those it thought that it might become a threat. There weren't vigilante gangs wandering the streets.

Democracy will fall soon enough.
Think: Ancient Rome was democratic, where are they at now? </3

But, it's better than totalitarianism, I guess.
Good luck?

Democracy (western, Athenian or otherwise) is, I think, over-rated what matters is the rule of law and protection of minorities. Churchill once said something to the effect of, 'Democracy is the worst form of Government, apart from all the others'.

[alex85]

Democracy will fall soon enough.
Think: Ancient Rome was democratic, where are they at now? </3

Ancient Rome wasn't democratic.
They had a so-called democracy attempt when they were a republic but in the empire age they were as far from democracy as it can be.

[marshlander]

How do you know they were safer under Sadam? Do you think terrorist regims keep a count of their victims? I dont think so.

I was quoting the perception of gays in the country as reported in the links.

And yes, I happen to think we should be proud of bringing our western values to this nations that live under uncivilized laws and religious terror. Like it or not the europeans had a huge civilizing role in the world even though the means of doing that werent the greatest but in the long term everyone benefited from from that.That's a undeniable historic fact.

However despicable Sadam's regime might have been it was not noticeably religious, although it suited his purpose to use religious rhetoric when attempting to unite his geographical neighbours against the invasion.

As to the "huge civilising role" the Europeans played during the colonising frenzy leading into the twentieth century whose lives were improved? It was rarely the indigenous inhabitants. Many of them suffered abuses of sometimes genocidal proportions while their descendants even today remain those nations' poorest citizens.

[Dan1089]

I don't get why you were high fiving yourself earlier Marsh.It baffles me that you lot can salvage an inkling of pride in the situation after so many innocent children,men and women were murdered as a result of actions by certain countries.Fuck democracy,these people were far better off before the self-appointed alpha & omegas of this world stepped in.

[marshlander]

I don't get why you were high fiving yourself earlier Marsh.It baffles me that you lot can salvage an inkling of pride in the situation after so many innocent children,men and women were murdered as a result of actions by certain countries.Fuck democracy,these people were far better off before the self-appointed alpha & omegas of this world stepped in.

Hi-fiving?! Did you actually read what I wrote and see the emoticons with which it was peppered? I know that mood does not translate well in this medium, but I'm amazed that you think I wrote this with anything other than a deep sense of shock, anger, dismay, shame ... oh, and sarcasm, in case it had passed you by. I'm staggered you need me to spell it out.

[alex85]

Fuck democracy, these people were far better off before the self-appointed alpha & omegas of this world stepped in.

How do you know that?