Ex-Gay? What do you think?

[knickerbuck]

yep but those type of men are just one in a million if you know what i mean ..

[East]

Goes against every perceptive observation of the world. I will take one man of the caliber of Philip of Macedon, Julius Caesar, or Napoleon or Alexander the Great, instead of 10,000 men.

Ditto.....I agree....

[MisterMagoo]

You are who you are.

Don't hide it, don't flaunt it, just embrace it.

Be who you are, live a happy life true to yourself.

It's 2016, we all know you can't treat gay, that's ridiculous!

[TigerLover]

Ha! I knew it. The moment I hit post I thought to myself "well meridian is definitely gonna try to correct me on this."

Not that I'm complaining I like discussing history.

Let's not even get into the fact that back then armies were often made up of paid mercenary soldiers, who did it for living, rather than actual citizens.

Yeah let's not get into that because it's not true. Back then mercenary armies were common because the wealthy trading empires of the Med were always at war with each another. Carthage was famously totally dependant on mercs, their own army being completely useless.

BUT crucially the specific region that served as the cradle of Christianity was not connected to the med nor associated with a greater power. Without trade or natural resources of their own the region was dirt poor and they would've had a hard time contacting mercenaries even if they had gold to spend.

I could go on to disect the rest of your comment and i'd like to but i'd basically just be repeating myself. You've made the same error throughout.

You clearly have a strong knowledge of Classical Mediterranean history. But whilst this region was geographically situated there it was politically and culturally completely isolated. It was the boondocks of the ancient world.

A big clue is that I have to keep using the phrase "that region" because no one ever bothered to name it.

[Camfer]

Ya know, I think they ought to work on the cure for heterosexuality before they work on the cure for homosexuality. Heterosexuality is just so much more prevalent, it seems like it's the greater concern.

[meridannight]

BUT crucially the specific region that served as the cradle of Christianity was not connected to the med nor associated with a greater power. Without trade or natural resources of their own the region was dirt poor and they would've had a hard time contacting mercenaries even if they had gold to spend.

Yeah, okay, I might have deliberately passed over that discrepancy between the two regions. I'm just not sure your army theory holds. As they were, they clearly could not have grown to a civilization of any military or economic might through population control like that alone, in any foreseeable future. Their neighbors weren't gonna just let that happen undetected. And even with best optimism the Jewish tribes couldn't have thought that was a serious measure on its own.

Besides, I brought out other aspects, than population growth, that did play into their stance on homosexuality.

I argued against your position, not so much because I have a fact sheet somewhere to prove you wrong, but because it just doesn't feel correct to me. With everything I know about men and history, it does not fall into place. It's an iffy postulation at best. (No offense). It does not boil down to one demonstrable reason like that. It had to have been something internally fought against and insisted on over decades and centuries in their society. Gradually. Such is a lot less rational and less identifiable process.

Needing to give birth to more men to deal with your enemies is just an excuse to justify and explain your inherent aversion to homosexual behavior between men. It's not a cause of your aversion. Just like the hatred of bigots who explain themselves by the very same lines today does not originate from any rational line of thought like that. It's an inherent aversion or something marginalized/shamed in the society at large, which ends up giving license to its repression.

You need to create a social atmosphere where most of the members take it for granted that something is a threat/weakness/shame to their society for them to naturally go along with repression and shaming. It's generations of growing up in it, believing in it and passing it on yourself. It originates from before they were so significantly and visibly meek compared to their mighty neighbors. It had to have been some intrinsic characteristic of their people, and ways of life, that eventually made such an attitude prevail on the larger scope.

[knickerbuck]

I went through a time when I wanted to be straight, I mistakenly thought if I tried hard enough then I could change. To a certain extent I think it was normal to lament the things that I would never have - a girlfriend, a wife, a 'conventional' family: all the things I grew up thinking I should have.
What's deranged was to dwell on such feelings, or worse, try to force these things on myself when instead I could have spent my energy on finding a boyfriend, a husband, an 'unconventional' but amazing family - all the things I do want now.

well, you are not alone Justaguy, i think every gay kid like me like you has had thoughts like that especially as children when asked what names they would have given their children if they ever get married and reproduce.. i guess it is possible though thru many of the options available today like surrogacy .. : D

[Justaguy]

Thanks [MENTION=23556]knickerbuck[/MENTION] it's good to know other guys have felt that way too. Yeah there are definitely a lot of options out there - not that I'm thinking about marriage or kids anytime soon, it's just nice to live in a world where I feel like I CAN still have those things

[CorsacReborn]

To start off, those people who have been telling you that you need to change can jog on and mind their own business, they can either accept that you're gay or deal with their own discriminatory issues in their own heads. As someone that does follow the christian faith its up to you to determine what it means to you and what ideologies or lessons that you take from it, it is possible to be both gay and religious but that depends on what you see as right and wrong both within and outside of the religion.

As for conversion therapy, it is something that should never be considered, these places prey on people like yourself who have doubts with their sexuality because of the world that we live in and try and twist you into their way of thinking. Conversion therapy enables these people to manipulate and abuse you into thinking that you are another person who is no longer gay, people who come out of this still end up having struggles with their feelings for those of the same gender but oppress them and pretend that they are this new "better" person. They're also making money from this as well so its just another form of dodgy business.

As for my own interpretation of religion and life after death, I like to think of myself as a realist and don't believe that there is life after death. I've been brought up in a household where there was no religion or belief in god but I always had the option of following a religion if I really wanted to. Every time I look at religion I see a system that was created to control and manipulate the way that people think and justify this by the judgements of gods that have never been proven to exist. Remember one thing, religious texts were all written by man and man is incredibly flawed like every other species on Earth. I don't need to be told by someone who wants to gain control of my life what I should and shouldn't be doing with my life, I need to be evaluating everything by myself and making informed decisions based on what I see and what I know exists. Religion has screwed up too many people for me to want to become another person added to those numbers, I couldn't imagine living a life oppressed by the views of discriminatory religious people who claim to be speaking for a god or gods that have never been proven to exist.

[kindy64]

A couple of websites to add to your understanding of Christianity and homosexuality...

http://www.stopbibleabuse.org/

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/unfundament...sexuality/