lesbian couples...

[just hi :)]

Hi! I'm new here, and I've had an interesting (and somwhat perplexing) conversation the other day...

Well, you know how in some relationships, there are (stereotypically) a feminine woman, and a masculine woman. Some people I've talked to regarding this subject have been confused about, "if they are lesbians, they like women, so why would they want to look and act like men" people wonder why there is a form of a "masculine" figure in the relationship if they are both lesbians...
Does anyone have any theories? Anything that you deem civilly (sp?) answerable to this question? I would very much appreciate your words of wisdom :redface:

Thanks
xxxx

[Gay]

I've had that conversation with many people, too, and, being a gay guy, have questioned it myself! I'm not sure I've come to a conclusion yet, either, so all I'll say for now is that, if you look into OUR side of homosexuality, you find the same thing; so many effeminate, prissy gay GUYS and, to outsiders, it doesn't make sense.

Having said that, I once spent eight hours consoling my lesbian friend after a night out, because she failed to understand how all the "butch, manly, ugly dykes" - as she put it - could pull and she couldn't, when she considers herself ok-looking etc.

So maybe we IN the circle don't really get it too much either!

Dan x

[just hi :)]

thanks for replying!
I am actually quite happy in a way you also don't understand this debateful topic :biggrin:
but the question remains...ambiguous but it still remains to have an opinion and to be discussed
all generous thoughts welcome
xxxx

[curious59]

I have a theory (it is only a theory, - please don't shoot me down in flames), that the masculine lesbian and more effeminate gay man, have perhaps got the brain gender of the opposite sex, and hence the sexual attraction that a member of the opposite sex would have:

Butch Lesbian:- Brain Gender male - fancies females
Effeminate gay man (bottom) - Brain Gender female - fancies males

I think science is now proving that some gay men have brains more like st8 females, and some butch lesbians have brains more like st8 males.

I find it harder to understand why a macho man finds a gay man more attractive than a woman, and a lipstick lesbian (femme) prefers a butch to a man.

e.g What does Portia see in Ellen other than her cash. I can 100% see what Ellen sees in Portia howevermile:

Maybe that is too simplistic. I would like to hear what some lipstick lesbians and manly gay men feel.

(I am a gay friendly st8 female, but I only understand, one half of the gay equation).

Having said that, I once spent eight hours consoling my lesbian friend after a night out, because she failed to understand how all the "butch, manly, ugly dykes" - as she put it - could pull and she couldn't, when she considers herself ok-looking etc.

Maybe all the lipsticks there were looking for dykes and not other lipsticks.:confused:

[fredv3b]

Just Hi,

Thanks for raising an interesting question. First I shall say that I really don't understand women (and lesbians even less so) therefore what I have got to say is really based around my observations of men. Second although I may not be the most masculine gay man in the world, I am certainly not effeminate, so that may prejudice my opinions.

I have a theory (it is only a theory, - please don't shoot me down in flames), that the masculine lesbian and more effeminate gay man, have perhaps got the brain gender of the opposite sex, and hence the sexual attraction that a member of the opposite sex would have:

Butch Lesbian:- Brain Gender male - fancies females
Effeminate gay man (bottom) - Brain Gender female - fancies males

I think science is now proving that some gay men have brains more like st8 females, and some butch lesbians have brains more like st8 males.

I find it harder to understand why a macho man finds a gay man more attractive than a woman, and a lipstick lesbian (femme) prefers a butch to a man.

I am afraid I don't buy curious59's theory. Whilst it is technically correct that there are male versus female brain differences and some 'female characteristics' seem to be found in gay men and some 'male characteristics' in lesbians, the differences are small, particularly compared to their press coverage, and inconsistent. If you were to give a scientist a brain scan of someone, its hard enough for them to determine their gender let alone their sexual orientation. Furthermore we should note that, what is considered masculine and feminine varies significantly between cultures and periods of history, therefore we should not assume that our current notions of masculinity or femininity is a 'true reflection' of the nature of (straight) males and females.

Curious59 appears to believe that individuals who are 'masculine' should be masculine in all respects including being attracted to females, and vica versa with those who are 'feminine'. I think I pretty much meet all the modern criteria of masculinity bar the one about fancying women. I consider myself a GAY MAN, both of those words being important. I'm into men because I like masculinity, I don't think it means I am not (or can't be) masculine myself.

My difficulty is understanding how a gay man can be attracted to an, albeit gay, man who frankly acts like a woman and correspondingly how a lesbian can be attracted to a very butch lesbian. As the old saying goes 'if I wanted a woman I would date one'.

if you look into OUR side of homosexuality, you find the same thing; so many effeminate, prissy gay GUYS and, to outsiders, it doesn't make sense.

I'm an insider and it doesn't make any sense to me!

Just my thoughts.

[yero69]

I am going to jump in here, I think I used this answer earlier we are all different so park the stereotypes at the door. I thought we were fighting to get acknowledgment of diversity and here we are talking about narrow minded gender labels and their use in describing identity
:confused: :confused: :confused:

[Gay]

That's a fair point. yero69, but JustHi made it clear from the outset that it was simply a conversation she'd had, and was left with an interesting thought.

Campaigning for equality and acceptance of diversity - as you say - is not affected by US looking into our own behaviour and questioning certain things that some of us, ourselves, do't understand.

Dan x

[marshlander]

I would agree in principle with yero's request to give little credit to stereotypes, but our brains are designed to organise information. Placing ideas and objects in categories is part of the organising process. Perhaps recognising that we are relying on stereotypes is more important when it comes to thinking and is, I suspect, more difficult.

I find curious59's too simplistic and at odds with my own experience to satisfy me as answer. We have already discussed the idea that men exhibiting stereotypically gay characteristics are not necessarily (or maybe even predominantly?) exclusively passive.

I am a gay man and that means I am attracted to men. It does not mean that I wish I had been born a woman, have a need to be dominated, was brought up with no father-figure and need to compensate, like to wear women's clothes or any of the other hundreds of odd ideas that people have about gays. Beyond being gay my choices and my behaviour are influenced by the same things that affect anyone else, gay or straight. Mainly my choice of companion is down to whether or not we have enough in common to get on and a sufficent number of differences to make the companionship interesting. At some point during that process feelings and emotions get involved.

[just hi :)]

thanks for all of your replies, they've been very insightful and useful!
I am aware of the fact that homosexuals are aiming to break away from stereotypes.
I believe it is also very much a person's choice on who they are really and who they prefer to be with?
Once again, many thanks
xxxx

[joseph]

it just if it was 2men or 2 women who was boyfrinds and girlfrinds . inlove like. it isnt doing the same.