Why does lust turn guys into idiots?

[artyboy]

Shake fist at the young uns!!!!

Lol I actually like to think of myself as a gentleman, and I don't want to be playing them.

One of them I think is just after some fun and will more on and the other wants to take it slow and have a long term relationship.

Years ago I would of gone with the lad that just wants a hook up. Not sure I want that any more though.

[meridannight]

The best I could find on such a short notice, was a study on romantic and maternal love (not lust exactly, but the study deals with that as well), done by a British neurobiologist Semir Zeki.

In broad strokes, their study reports to have found that the state of romantic love is characterized by a pattern of activation and de-activation of certain brain areas; and is associated with an increased expression of neuromodulators dopamine, oxytocin, and vasopressin, and a decreased expression of serotonin in certain key areas.

I pulled some excerpts for a quick overview:

Both deactivate a common set of regions associated with negative emotions, social judgment and ‘mentalizing’ that is, the assessment of other people’s intentions and emotions. Human attachment seems therefore to employ a push–pull mechanism that overcomes social distance by deactivating networks used for critical social assessment and negative emotions, while it bonds individuals through the involvement of the reward circuitry, explaining the power of love to motivate and exhilarate.

And the areas that are activated in response to romantic feelings are largely co-extensive with those brain regions that contain high concentrations of a neuro-modulator that is associated with reward, desire, addiction and euphoric states, namely dopamine.

Studies have shown a depletion of serotonin in early stages of romantic love to levels that are common in patients with obsessive-compulsive disorders. Love, after all, is a kind of obsession and in its early stages commonly immobilizes thought and channels it in the direction of a single individual.

The early stages of romantic love seem to correlate as well with another substance, nerve growth factor, which has been found to be elevated in those who have recently fallen in love compared to those who are not in love or who have stable, long-lasting, relationships. Moreover, the concentration of nerve growth factor appears to correlate significantly with the intensity of romantic feelings.

Oxytocin and vasopressin expression also is increased:

The concentration of both neuro-modulators increases during the phase of intense romantic attachment and pairing.

Moreover, sexual arousal (and orgasms) de-activate a region in the frontal cortex that overlaps the de-activated region observed in romantic love. This is perhaps not surprising, given that humans often take “leave of their senses” during sexual arousal, perhaps even inducing them to conduct which they might later, in more sober mood, regret.

Among these are connections with the frontal, parietal and middle temporal cortex as well as a large nucleus located at the apex of the temporal lobe, known as the amygdala. Increase in activity in the romantic core of areas is mirrored by a decrease in activity, or inactivation, of these cortical zones. The amygdala is known to be engaged during fearful situations and its de-activation, when subjects view pictures of their partners as well as during human male ejaculation, implies a lessening of fear.

As well, the all-engaging passion of romantic love is mirrored by a suspension of judgment or a relaxation of judgmental criteria by which we assess other people, a function of the frontal cortex (Fig. 3). This cortical zone, along with the parietal cortex and parts of the temporal lobe, has also been commonly found to be involved in negative emotions. Its inactivation in romantic as well as maternal states – when faced with the loved one – should not therefore be surprising because, when deeply in love, we suspend those critical judgments that we otherwise use to assess people.

Full text can be found here:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/art...9307004875

[artyboy]

The best I could find on such a short notice, was a study on romantic and maternal love (not lust exactly, but the study deals with that as well), done by a British neurobiologist Semir Zeki.

In broad strokes, their study reports to have found that the state of romantic love is characterized by a pattern of activation and de-activation of certain brain areas; and is associated with an increased expression of neuromodulators dopamine, oxytocin, and vasopressin, and a decreased expression of serotonin in certain key areas.

I pulled some excerpts for a quick overview:










Oxytocin and vasopressin expression also is increased:










Full text can be found here:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/art...9307004875

Cheers I'll read that through properly tomorrow evening, I'm far to tired to look at right know. Looks interesting what I've read so far though

[Insertnamehere]

You're old enough to not be controlled by your dick.

In other news, welcome to the world of neuronal/hormonal regulation and the tricky tricks that a finely threaded network starting at the hypothalamus, passing through the hypophysis and ending at your balls has been scripted and coded to do in reponse to potential mating. Of course neither of them has been imprinted with the knowledge that your mating will not result in reproduction, or else the "call" would never be as potent hehe.

Read what the dude up there shared. It should make things clear

[InbetweenDreams]

As well, the all-engaging passion of romantic love is mirrored by a suspension of judgment or a relaxation of judgmental criteria by which we assess other people, a function of the frontal cortex (Fig. 3). This cortical zone, along with the parietal cortex and parts of the temporal lobe, has also been commonly found to be involved in negative emotions. Its inactivation in romantic as well as maternal states – when faced with the loved one – should not therefore be surprising because, when deeply in love, we suspend those critical judgments that we otherwise use to assess people.

I guess we're just fooling ourselves then? Or to put it more exacting, we're slaves to hormones that make us feel in love with someone, yet I could write a fucking book about how I feel about someone in detail. Of course I have to wonder how much about how I feel is utter nonsense and how much is truthful. You cannot be objective when you're "in love," I think that is for certain. However, I think in one way or another we're very much at the mercy of hormones, chemicals and electrical impulses. I don't feel that we're only a fancy chemistry set. Takes the humanity out of the equation.

Makes me think of this scene...

[meridannight]

I guess we're just fooling ourselves then? Or to put it more exacting, we're slaves to hormones that make us feel in love with someone, yet I could write a fucking book about how I feel about someone in detail. Of course I have to wonder how much about how I feel is utter nonsense and how much is truthful. You cannot be objective when you're "in love," I think that is for certain. However, I think in one way or another we're very much at the mercy of hormones, chemicals and electrical impulses. I don't feel that we're only a fancy chemistry set. Takes the humanity out of the equation.

I don't agree. I think what we feel for a man we are in love with is the truth, if not the only truth in the world.

Who says our judgmental skills are to be preferred over our emotional reactions anyway? Rational thought is just as much at the mercy of chemistry and hormones in our brain, as emotions are. Just because we are rendered less critical of men we fall in love with, does not make our emotions illegitimate. It just brings the emotions into focus. I could just as easily claim, that the reason I am critical of strangers and people I don't care about, is because I don't react emotionally to them. Caring is an emotional quality, not something you can do through rational reasoning. And it's something that happens only with select people, not with everyone. So which is more valuable -- cold rationality you possess with most everyone, or rare emotional reaction elicited only toward specific individuals?

Who says the man who loves another does not see his partner more genuinely than those other people who look at him through rational criticism? If all of us went looking for a partner through complete rationalization alone, we'd all end up unhappy. I don't need a guy who earns enough money, bathes a certain number of times a week, and has an IQ score of at least 140 to qualify to be my partner. I need a man I feel connected to, am physically attracted to, care about, and love, to be my partner.


As much as I am a man of science and reason, I value my relationships with men above any benefits of my intellect. Not saying I'd prefer to be stupider, but with the intelligence I do have, emotions still rank higher to me. Intelligence is for free, and it's not going anywhere; emotional connection with another man, however, is more rare, delicate and more precious, not something you get so easily. And, that emotional connection is more interesting and fascinating than quantum mechanics and Philip of Macedon's battle tactics combined. And it also makes me feel more satisfied/fulfilled than quantum mechanics.

The things I feel for other men -- I'd give everything, every object of material value that I own, before I relinquish my connection to men. Because that is the best I have felt in this life. Not even the high from cocaine is comparable to it, and cocaine is pretty powerful in itself. And while I can't claim that what I feel for men comes from rationality, this evaluation on the quality of my feelings and connection to them does.


What is more interesting to me, and what this study raises as a question, is whether those men who have significantly above average intelligence, have a harder time switching off their rational parts, and harder time connecting emotionally with other people. I've never really looked into it well, but it's an interesting question. Even though I don't necessarily think there should be such a correlation (rather a dysfunction in the emotional regulation in the brain, maybe).

PS. I'd like to hear where [MENTION=21558]Emiliano[/MENTION] stands on this topic. Care to pitch in?

[Emiliano]

PS. I'd like to hear where [MENTION=21558]Emiliano[/MENTION] stands on this topic. Care to pitch in?

I mean, I've been reading this thread, its interesting what you all are sharing, but I didn't really feel I have much to contribute. I think I'm a very loving person, I'm overwhelmed by the love I feel for this world and people and little moments I have experienced. But I've never been in love. I've never really even been close to it, I don't think. So I cant really speak about my ideas on that experience.

Lust, I have felt that for sure. And I've acted like an idiot because of it. I find it interesting what you guys with more scientific minds have to say about it, but if I had to throw out an answer to this, I'd assume that lust and the way that our dicks take over in certain situations has to do with the reproduction of the human species. Spread your seed and all that. Its kind of a sad way of looking at humanity and it kind of diminishes the worth of all of our great civilizations and creativity, and its certainly one that I don't really like to take - but isn't that biologically our biggest priority? Reproduction?

That we are gay men discussing this rather than straight men is just a minor detail since we are all working with the same equipment. I mean, I dont know. Maybe getting off is linked to reproduction in our reptilian brains, so even for a total bottom, as long as he gets off, his biological needs are met? Lol.. I really dont think I have anything intelligent to add, sorry. I'm not sure if I even really understand whats being asked here.

Maybe with any sort of strong relationship, romantic love, platonic love, lust, whatever... maybe its our brains way of helping to create bonds? Bonds, sexual or otherwise, are important to society right? So maybe its important that our judgment is suspended, for better or for worse, in order to create those relationships, to integrate us better into society, and with each other, to better ensure our survival?

[LJay]

insertname here: "You're old enough to not be controlled by your dick."

What the hell are you talking about young man?

[Camfer]

insertname here: "You're old enough to not be controlled by your dick."

What the hell are you talking about young man?

Maybe eventually it's the prostate that takes over? If you think about it, it kind of looks like a little brain.

[InbetweenDreams]

[MENTION=21405]meridannight[/MENTION] I don't believe that but it does seem that a lot of studies on the brain are suggesting that free will is an illusion. That we've made our choices before we realize, consciously, that we have. So are my thoughts really independent or is it a result or the "state" of my brain and body...say the arrangement of neurons, the hormones....what I had for breakfast? Speaking of brains, there was a case where a guy had some sort of condition where whatever the cause essentially left him with with 10% of his brain, he was however able to live a normal life, had a job and a wife and despite him having only 10% of his brain he still had an IQ of 75, I mean not all that impressive but considering all that pretty phenomenal. Anyway, I think it is a question that is really hard for science to answer, consciousness is pretty complex and even with modern technology we still end up with "I think therefore I am."