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Racial stereotyping = racism?
#1
By its very nature an equilibrium is delicate. A balance needs only a little added or taken away from one pan of the scale and the whole thing is out of kilter. Over the past couple of decades legislation has been introduced in the UK to outlaw racism. Race-hate crimes are supposed to be pursued with that little extra something. I'm wondering where to draw the line on what racism is.

I've been accused many times of being racist. Never has it been because I have deliberately gone out of my way to perform an act of racism. To the best of my knowledge I never have. However, because I am a member of a racial majority in the country of my birth I am assumed to be racist by some. As a teacher in the seventies I can still hear children saying to me that I was only picking on them because they were black. As it happens I wasn't. I was telling them their behaviour was unacceptable and it was preventing everyone else from learning. Of course they were black (or Asian, or Polish or Italian). I only had six white British children in that particular class.

Years later when working with a dance musician from Birmingham he told me I was racist, even though I have no idea what sparked his outburst. He said it wasn't anything I had said or done. I was white and therefore I was a racist.

Recently I've been made to think about these events again. As I walk through the streets in the nearest town I am aware of my feelings when I hear the sound of other European languages being spoken by those passing by. There seem to be an awful lot of them, particularly Eastern European ones. I feel uncomfortable about what I perceive to be an influx of foreign nationals and uncomfortable about how I respond internally. I am on the other side of that when I'm in France or Switzerland with PA. He loves to speak English and I can often spend almost a whole week there and hardly speak any French at all. I am sure that some people hearing us talk must feel the same as I do, uncomfortable at a perceived influx of the English. I try to speak more French, specially when out and about, but I'm not much good at it.

Maybe I'm taking this too far, but I see some aspects of racism creeping into these discussion groups. What one person sees as humour in a stereotype another perceives as a put-down or a threat. So what if a "great writer" wrote it? It's still racism and has no place here. I was going to let this pass since it's my country that is on the receiving end of the joke in this instance, which may or may not have been justified at the time the quote was written. However, we have also recently seen the sexual objectification and stereotyping based on physical characteristics inherited by certain racial types and it makes me feel really uncomfortable. To me this objectification is a step on the road to dehumanisation. We have too many recent historical examples of where that can lead and I thought it necessary to write something.

Some of you know I do a lot of musical projects with school aged children. There are some great songs out there, some of which I cannot bring myself to sing because they make me feel ill at ease on a racial level, even if I cannot always articulate why. I've recently reintroduced a song into my repertoire because, after about twenty years, I've finally settled on a form of words that doesn't stereotype by race. I'm pleased to have done it and kids have fun singing it. I shall sing it today.
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#2
Stereotypes I just want to point out the meaning of the word in my eyes.

In the end I see it as the social standard of a certain country/local area would be classed as a stereotype, I can understand it pissing people off as you want to be individual.
but stereotypes can be as basic as the word chav, and as vast as the word limey (the name for england I think?).

As a kid I used the word chav on a daily basis, I wouldn't call it racism I'm referring to a group of people that have gained this chav status, be it from wearing the clothes or acting like one.

I don't see simple things like that as being racist unless it was originally aimed to hurt someone, which quite often it does.
So from that point it makes people think suddenly "oh thats a bad word" when the origin of it wasn't meant in a bad way it was just a general term, maybe not as such to hurt people but to have a laugh between those people.


Lets be honest political correctness is a load of shit, it physically has to change every year due to the method its meant in, now you cannot refer to a coloured person as coloured because thats not political correctness.

I see nothing wrong with refering to someone by their colour, I've been called white quite a few times I don't take offense to it.


I'll be honest I don't like posting on topic like this incase I offend anyone, unless I know the person I'm talking to well I don't mind joking about with stereotypes other than that I wouldn't like to use offensive words.
Their are words that piss me off, and I wouldn't want people to use them around me.
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#3
"Political correctness" ... maybe that's what I am talking about? It's funny though that being "politically correct" has somehow become a bad thing when all it really is is a new way of describing what in the old days we called "being courteous and considerate of the feelings of others".
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#4
racist is very very bad. i am not racist. i hate it its nasty
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#5
Not sure if I can add anything to such well thought out comments...
I have also been called racist by a couple people... funny enough it seems no matter my history it dont matter... just being a white male makes ya a racist. It took me about half my life to look back and realize that I had 90% of my long term relationships with non-whites. It wasnt as if I was going after colored dick but that is just the way it turned out being an "internationalist". It took me over a decade with my JBoy before realizing that I was in a bi-racial relationship... I know it sounds silly but the thought just never entered my mind.

The individual that most recently suggest I was racist turns out to possibly agist... his friends most def are and he has made a number of statements that suggest he is.
I thought about all this and realized that any ISM is of great concern... the categorization of humans separates us and this seems to be where so many troubles of the world start. Cant we all just get along?

OK, that is all...
Peace Out.
btw, marsh, hope it wasnt anything I said in any post... I know being an American can be seen as racist too.
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#6
fjp999 Wrote:btw, marsh, hope it wasnt anything I said in any post... I know being an American can be seen as racist too.[/COLOR]
No, Frank, nothing you said at all Confusedmile:
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#7
marshlander Wrote:Race-hate crimes are supposed to be pursued with that little extra something. I'm wondering where to draw the line on what racism is.

A very good question. Until you know who did what to whom and why in the case of an alleged crime how can you know it is a race-hate crime and pursue it with that little extra something?

marshlander Wrote:Years later when working with a dance musician from Birmingham he told me I was racist, even though I have no idea what sparked his outburst. He said it wasn't anything I had said or done. I was white and therefore I was a racist.

To believe that being white made you a racist is in itself racist. If he was (as I trust) wrong then it merely shows that Blacks and be racist too (remember the Black vs Asian race riots in Birmingham). If he was right it shows that racism can be accurate and therefore not necessarily wrong.

Regarding you thoughts about hearing foreign languages, race, ethnicity, culture and nationality are all separate but overlapping concepts. We are generally allowed to prefer our own cultures and excused when we feel ours are becoming swamped, the question is when does that become racism?

marshlander Wrote:Maybe I'm taking this too far, but I see some aspects of racism creeping into these discussion groups. What one person sees as humour in a stereotype another perceives as a put-down or a threat. So what if a "great writer" wrote it? It's still racism and has no place here. I was going to let this pass since it's my country that is on the receiving end of the joke in this instance, which may or may not have been justified at the time the quote was written. However, we have also recently seen the sexual objectification and stereotyping based on physical characteristics inherited by certain racial types and it makes me feel really uncomfortable. To me this objectification is a step on the road to dehumanisation. We have too many recent historical examples of where that can lead and I thought it necessary to write something.

You can't force people to be nice to each other, if you remove one set of insults they will just find others. Objectification might be a step on the road to dehumanisation but it is also a necessity of every day life. The woman in front of me, may well have hopes and fears for the future, a family and culture, ideas about the world, etc. however I simply don't have the time or energy to care, right now she is simply the checkout girl.
Fred

Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans.
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#8
Thanks once again, Fred, for your thoughtful response.

Quote:You can't force people to be nice to each other, if you remove one set of insults they will just find others. Objectification might be a step on the road to dehumanisation but it is also a necessity of every day life. The woman in front of me, may well have hopes and fears for the future, a family and culture, ideas about the world, etc. however I simply don't have the time or energy to care, right now she is simply the checkout girl.

I quite agree that force is useless, although the law is often designed to encourage and promote certain kinds of behaviour. There are also those informal, often sub-cultural, pressures that aim to promote certain conformities (whether they be going for a joyride in a car that a mate has just taken without the owner's consent or by wearing items of clothing or adornment that identify you as part of a community). I think I would differentiate between "objectification" and "classification" though. I see quite a difference between being able to identify the cashier with the the paid job for which she has voluntarily applied, been trained and is paid and a man or woman who unwittingly becomes an object of someone else's lust simply because they belong to a particular ethnic type.
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#9
marshlander Wrote:"Political correctness"


Those words did spring to mind when reading your post Marshy.......


Interesting

Thanks for posting
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#10
Star Twister Wrote:Those words did spring to mind when reading your post Marshy.......


Interesting

Thanks for posting
The power of the press is truly amazing Wink
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