Money in education

[kindy64]

Personally, our education system has been going downhill since the creation of the Department of Education, and more money being funneled into a broken system is not going to fix it.

Figure out what has changed, what that is doing to education and maybe we can figure out how to fix it.

Until then, remove Federal mandates that aren't involved with equal access and availability.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/edu...68ff951852

One of the Obama administration’s signature efforts in education, which pumped billions of federal dollars into overhauling the nation’s worst schools, failed to produce meaningful results, according to a federal analysis.

Test scores, graduation rates and college enrollment were no different in schools that received money through the School Improvement Grants program — the largest federal investment ever targeted to failing schools — than in schools that did not.

...

Some education experts say that the administration closed its eyes to mounting evidence about the program’s problems in its own interim evaluations, which were released in the years after the first big infusion of cash.

The latest interim evaluation, released in 2015, found mixed results, with students at one-third of the schools showing no improvement or even sliding backward.

[InbetweenDreams]

I mean overall it is no surprise. I don't know so much that it is money but at least what my experience being in school and working at one is that teachers, instructors are tied to a curriculum set by the state or federal government. I think there should be minimums set, but there shouldn't such a strict curriculum. Personally if you want to see how to make our school's a success ought to take a look at what countries and areas where they are successful, say Finland.

As far as money in schools. It generally is pretty tight and when there is money to spend, it can't be spent on all the things you really would like to spend it on, has to use used for the purpose it was given, so it is a catch 22. I mean how can you get money to build a new building but can't get new text books or new computers or whatever.

I mean it was absolute tripe with Bush's No Child Left Behind Act which was a disaster too... and they'll be more disasters ahead. When will America get it's head out of it's ass on education?

[Pix]

Of course the government didn't track the money. That would defeat the actual purpose of creating slush funds they could plunder. Groups in California are constantly trying to get bills passed that will prevent the funds that go to school from being hijacked, and when they actually manage to get something through then more bills go through that are meant to subvert that protection so that the education budget can be plundered again. (Libraries face this as well.)

And not just them, but others. Like how some dairy farmers try to get their own people on school boards, because then they can work out a deal that a school pays 5x for each carton of milk that every other school pays for (seriously, this happened at a school I know about). The corruption is so pervasive and multifaceted that it's no wonder school boards hire principals and such to sweep problems under the rug rather than dealing with them (anything to prevent public scrutiny).

There always seems to be new workshops and consultants to improve schools, but they never seem to work (at least not as advertised, they DO work in netting a lot of money with their scams). Meanwhile, proven methods that work are dismantled, probably to make sure the scammy workshops can keep collecting.

I used to believe in Charter Schools, but now I see them as a huge scam as well.

Corporations that make school textbooks mass produce what people will buy rather than what would actually be good, and that ripples to hurt many schools, such as when they water down history to not offend liberals, conservative, Christians, and even parents in general. Sure, schools can special order a better textbook, but that costs extra, and frills isn't something many schools can afford (at least not when those frills involve doing their actual stated job). Though I did know one school about to update their biology books (that were about 40 years old) but conservatives snuck enough stealth candidates onto the school board that they nixed it because the new book listed the claims of Creationism and debunked them (they still needed one more vote, and got it by convincing one woman on the board that the books were too heavy ).

Parents can be pretty horrible and nonsensical as well, though I think most of them see schools as more glorified babysitting services. But the ones who involve themselves generally have issues and do more harm than good. And the rest don't want inconveniences so are actually glad that the schools sweep as many problems under the rug as they can (at least until it affects them personally).

Though these problems are at every level of American society, with scammers and incompetents in all industries, and a "if it's not adversely affecting me then it's not a problem" with an individualism so rampant that many happily put their aging parents into abusive homes just to get an early start at divvying up their stuff. I'm not sure why we'd expect better when we live in a nation of people as crappy as that. And until someone can cook up a one size fits all solution that's easy to understand and implement then no one is interested (and if one such solution really did deal with the problems then many entrenched factions within schools, government, corporations, and churches would find ways to stymie it).

That said, I vaguely recall reading something about how poor people generally did worse due to a wide range of problems that made learning difficult. Maybe those billions should be poured into the communities themselves instead rather than the schools, but I'm sure the money would just get hijacked some other way again (and I suspect that it's meant to be hijacked, at least in part, the moment the funding is assigned).

But on another matter, a couple of people told me that when Reagan took office (right about the time the DOE was started, which Reagan opposed) that "critical thinking" was being phased out of schools. Actually many stated that Reagan promoted such as too many Americans were questioning the ridiculous Cold War propaganda (just as many Soviet citizens were also doing at the time, and what's funny is that both the US and USSR taught critical thinking to question the ridiculous propaganda of enemy nations rather than the ridiculous propaganda of one's own nation) but 2 remember how schools changed in those time as they were in middle school then and recall how it changed which they described to me. 'Course it's only been getting worse since then, like what the Texas GOP came up with (just one of many ways they sabotage education):

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ans...64caa62849

[Emiliano]

I think our education system needs an overhaul. It's not working, it's failing so many kids. I agree throwing money at a problem doesn't work, we first have to identify what the problems are and where they stem from and how to more effectively use the money that is put into it.

I don't like the current focus on testing and really just one type of learning. I'm not into common core or nclb, and most DOE teachers I know don't like them either. But without the federal government I worry about funding - not all of that money is thrown to the wind.

However, I also don't trust individual states to uphold certain rights of students. I work closely with high risk and high needs and special needs populations of students outside of the classroom setting and it's pretty clear to me how much the current system is failing them. We need new ideas and a new paradigm for education. I'm open to hearing out different ideas and experimenting with different solutions, as I think we all should be. I'm of the strong belief that education and the youth should be a top priority.

For those that support abolishing the federal dept of ed - what would that look like, best case scenario?

[kindy64]

Well, it comes down to, what role should the Federal government have in education or anything else for that matter. Equally protecting the civil rights of all citizens, and protecting the nation from foreign and domestic threats (ie war, terrorism, and the like.)

So, a person with a learning disability isn't being served well enough by the local school.

First stop should be the local school, then the school district, then the local board of education, then the state BOE, the civil rights division of the state if there is one, then finally to the civil rights division of the Department of Justice...

I find myself shaking my head at the number of stupid required courses my son has had to take in middle school and high school, without really teaching him, or him learning anything. And he is someone who has a learning disability. He is in a private, Catholic school right now, because the last public school he was in gave the students laptops to use in class, without the least bit of instruction on its proper use in school, or monitoring the use in class. Hence, he failed practically every class his freshman year in H.S. And this was after having a "digital citizenship" class in middle school.

In my day, we had paper, pencil, pen, and standard tests we took every several years. There were 2 tracks in our H.S., vocational, and college bound. Even taking the college track I was able to take electives including home economics (cooking, sewing, budgeting,) wood shop, metal shop, art, and music. I was well prepared for college. Granted this was in a better Connecticut school system. But it was a working formula.

So, what happened from the time I was in high school to now. Department of education. More federal money along with more bureaucratic hoops to jump through to get it, and keep it, mandates on its use.

I think the race for "equality" in education basically drove everyone to the lowest common denominator, rather than raising anyone up.

You can mandate equal access, you can't mandate equal outcomes.

[InbetweenDreams]

Well by the time I got to 6th grade I did start seeing or observing changes, It was sought that I would have to do all sorts of book reports. I mean we read but we might have to answer a few questions but there was not that much writing that I was led to believe. By the time I get down here they didn't care if you wrote in cursive, which at the time seemed like a blessing. I hate to admit it but I rarely write by hand and at this point I remember just enough cursive to sign my name....Terrible right? It kind of is. Not that my handwriting is great, there's a story about that even. I just type these days, that's all. I will say I think I have reasonably decent grammar, although I know it is far from perfect but I do make an effort to use proper punctuation, grammar and lookup words that I don't know or that I'm using them correctly.

So when I was in kindergarten I must have had a teacher from the 19th century... I'm left handed and from what I can remember and what my parents tell me I could write, with my left hand, before kindergarten. When the teacher got a hold of me she tried making me write with my right hand most of the school year (I think) and really screwed me up, to the point that I couldn't write anymore. So... long story short I was, somewhat, held back. I was put in what they called transitional which was supposed to be half kindergarten and 1st grade. I think there were other issues, probably social ones...didn't get along well with others.

So yeah public schools want to be this one size fits all and everyone gets the same outcome....except that's hardly the case. Honestly though I think a corrupt government loves a dumb public. I mean just look at Facebook on any news story, yeah you got trolls in there but a lot of them must be the "normal" people. Kind of scary I must say.

[Emiliano]

Kindy, I'm glad you were able to find a private school able and willing to support your sons needs. Your lucky to be able to do so, and beyond luck, it's good for him to have a family willing and able to do what you could to ensure he was able to be placed in a different school.

I don't view my concerns as being the same thing as wanting equal outcomes. I don't believe in the one size fits all view of education. But I also don't view that as the only issue here.

[Pix]

Schools have lesson plans designed for the average. Those who fall far below (without actually being "special needs" otherwise) or above the average tend to get frustrated and/or bored, and thus make trouble. Teachers who just want to get through it tend to be equally frustrated with both of them.

The new laws have changed things around a bit. On one hand it's best to have as many kids in school as possible. On the other hand, sometimes it's best to find a way to get rid of the least performing. And the way a lot of schools now focus on testing for their results make me wonder when most of the schooling will be done online...probably would be already if corporations wouldn't find that incredibly inconvenient (because then that would affect many workers, and besides, many companies have learned to use schools as mediums for more advertising, particularly with athletic events).