Trumpy's attitude towards the transgender

[Scootaloo]

[EvenOlderButWiser]

So, should a 12 year old transgendered girl, who isn't on hormones, and still has all their male equipment be allowed to shower with 12 year old girls after gym class?

That is an excellent question K64!

I suspect however that this issue would never arise, as the individual will probably have an exemption from gym class.

It does however go to the heart of the matter, and why its been an issue for some people.

And btw, the same conflict would arise for an FTM student wanting to use the boys facilities

Its a tough one to call, and your not going to be able to please everyone with the answer, which is why I think Trumpy and his gang have sloped shoulders and thrown it back to State to legislate on.

[ShiftyNJ]

True that no solution is going to please everyone. The thing that I wish would get captured in legislation or policy is that these kids (let's remember they're kids) should not be made to feel like freaks or deviants. Most adolescents already feel like that, without the added trauma of adults you don't know comparing you to a child molester.

Showers/locker rooms are a particularly vexing case but when it comes to just using the rest room, I don't know why we don't have stalls with doors so nobody has to worry what anybody else's plumbing looks like or feel like they're going to be attacked. We went to a restaurant in Philadelphia a few years ago that had one bathroom with individual compartments (actual rooms with full-height doors, not steel paneled partitions with gaps above and below) for everybody. It worked quite well as there was not the normal queue for the ladies' whilst the men's was empty. Saw the same in France except with urinals (which the fact that guys would use urinals with women walking behind them reflects their less-uptight attitude in general). Maybe here we could have a urinal room with toilet stalls for everybody else.

[Emiliano]

So, should a 12 year old transgendered girl, who isn't on hormones, and still has all their male equipment be allowed to shower with 12 year old girls after gym class?

I agree that's a good question. It's not one I have an easy answer for.

But I also don't think a 12 year old transgendered girl who still has their male equipment should necessarily be showing with other boys, especially if she is presenting as female.

Trans people experience higher rates of violence and sexual assaults. So while we talk about protecting the children, let's talk about protecting all the children, including the trans ones.

Are we concerned about a trans girl sexually assaulting cis girls? I'm not saying trans people aren't ever perpetrators of sexual violence. But if that's the case, should openly gay and lesbian youth or adults be allowed in same gender facilities? Or are we concerned about exposing young girls to what a penis looks like? These are important conversations.

I'm not saying I don't think it should be up to the states, the schools, the people involved directly, to decide on a case by case basis after a lot of conversation on the local level. I like protections on the federal level, but I'm very much of the belief that communities should come together to deal the issues that face that individual community.

What concerns me is that states don't always have a great track record of civil rights and doing what's best for historically oppressed and marginalized people -when 9 lions and one lamb are asked to decide what's for dinner, it's probably going to be lamb. That's where basic federal protections should come in.

[princealbertofb]

The answer is cubicles.

[princealbertofb]

How did the legislation originally provide for this? There must have been some practical thought brought to it.

[CorsacReborn]

The answer is cubicles.

Some people would still make an issue with this though, women's toilets are basically this and the discrimination is already there.

[princealbertofb]

If people are so concerned with another person's physical integrity, why does it necessary follow that people should shower, or pee, or poo in full few of the rest of the people of their gender? Cubicles, which means privacy.

[kindy64]

One, let me say, I personally don't care, because I'm an adult, I can choose to pee at a urinal, or wait for a stall. Having been to gay bars, and drag shows, I don't care who is lined up next to me.

Im going to speak mainly about k-12 schools. The concerns were presented above. Possible bullying of the transgendered. Privacy concerns for everyone because a trangendered student is changing and showering with them. Also, the possibility of Johnny faker doing it just to get in the girls shower.

Reasonable accommodation to me means a separate area for the trans student. Many don't agree with that, saying that would make them feel different, an outcast, etc...

I agree with the individual stall for everyone. That takes money and time to accomplish. That would be a goal in a perfect world where we didn't have a greater issue of providing a quality education for everyone.