Men embracing

[LONDONER]

Some surprisingly intimate photos from the 1800s

http://mashable.com/2017/03/05/men-embracing/

[Marcus]

Very interesting. The thought that some of these men may have actually loved each other saddens me a bit cause those were really hard times for gay people, but seeing them still holding their hands despite that warms my hearth. Some of those are really cute, there are a few nice poses too, I didn't expect that from photographs this old. Thanks for sharing.

[deephiance]

I would think you would find that it was far easier to be homosexual and that we are in fact coming full circle. These photos reflect the very liberal attitudes of the day and it was the 1920's that saw the liberal attitudes changes to the complete opposite and most western nations declare homosexuality illegal and listed as a disease.

I haven't done the research, but I think if you did, you would also find that the prominence of Catholicism reached it's peak at about the same time.

[Marcus]

I would think you would find that it was far easier to be homosexual and that we are in fact coming full circle. These photos reflect the very liberal attitudes of the day and it was the 1920's that saw the liberal attitudes changes to the complete opposite and most western nations declare homosexuality illegal and listed as a disease.

I haven't done the research, but I think if you did, you would also find that the prominence of Catholicism reached it's peak at about the same time.

From wikipedia: "The first recorded police raid in American history on a gay bathhouse took place in New York City on February 21, 1903, when New York police raided the Ariston Hotel Baths. 26 men were arrested and 12 brought to trial on sodomy charges; 7 men received sentences ranging from 4 to 20 years in prison.[9] After all, police raids on gay hangouts and other examples of formal and/or informal harassment were common practice prior [and] during the first half of the 20th century."

Oscar Wilde was also arrested on charges of "sodomy and gross indecency" by the end of the 19th century.

Not to mention homosexuality was considered a mental disorder and only recently it was completely removed from the DSM (1987).

Without going any deeper into this, I think it's safe to assume that it wasn't "far easier" to be homosexual. Certainly not easier than today in western countries.

[deephiance]

so you only read what you wanted to read?

Did you not understand what I said in my post or something.

How about you go back to the mid 1800's when the photos were taken and times were easier rather than quote a fact that proves what I said.

Sodomy laws have always been around, it just became applied to homosexuals until the laws were changed is the years after the 20th century, by the 1920's the fate of homosexuals was sealed, not only were there laws outlawing same sex relationships, it was also listed as a mental illness and that is the way it stayed for at least the next 50 years.

As the terms homosexual didn't really exist prior to the turn of the century also points to the fact that same sex attraction was not frowned upon as it began to be frown upon and thence legislated against by using laws to protect women from sodomy and gross indecency. In many cultures same sex attraction and even pedastry were desirable...The misinterpretation of religion to suit certain societies purposes of crowd control changed many things for the worst, but some things for the better.

[Marcus]

While same-sex attraction itself wasn't punished, same-sex sexual intercourse was indeed criminalized in a lot of places during the time those pictures were taken. Anyway it was just a misunderstanding. I thought you were saying that being gay in the mid-late 1800' was easier than today (which isn't true), but on a more careful reading it seems you were just saying things got worse after that (around 1920).

[Radbot42]

These are some very interesting pictures. Was honestly surprised to see the crossdresser.

[LONDONER]

These are some very interesting pictures. Was honestly surprised to see the crossdresser.

Cross dressing goes way back. Recently on British TV there was a fictional series called ·"Taboo" that historically was well researched and some scenes were set in what was known as "Molly Houses"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molly_house

where cross dressing was quite common.

[meridannight]

These are some very interesting pictures. Was honestly surprised to see the crossdresser.

It goes back to ancient Rome at least. Such a thing was also practiced by certain priests in the ancient Egyptian culture (and yes, those priests slept with men). It was a temple practice at some time, where such ''prostitutes'' (I only use this term for lack of a better) offered their ''services'' to other men under the protection of religious/spiritual significance.

If you read Benvenuto Cellini's autobiography you'll learn that he once took a male student* dressed as a female to dinner with his friends, and passed him off as such.


*I mistyped him earlier as prostitute, which I looked up he wasn't. He was a 16-year-old student of Latin.