Marcus Wrote:[MENTION=21558]Emiliano[/MENTION] you're absolutely right, but Panti is a character, not his real personality. He's a man who dresses like that just for show (that's a drag queen afaik), not because he has a female heart or something. So I thought it was a bit unnecessary and counterproductive, at least during that particular speech. It's not like he had to pretend he was a different person or deny his true nature.
I would assume he is speaking while in drag because he is a well known drag queen and it is the drag persona of Panti that is his public persona, and this is a public appearance.
And whether he speaks as a gay man, or as a drag queen, or as a gay man who performs as a drag queen, the points he makes that he is human and deserves to be recognized as such, to not be reduced to or defined by a sex act, or have his every public affection viewed as a political act, stands firm.
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I know that [MENTION=21558]Emiliano[/MENTION] (why the fuck can't I quote?! Damn you [MENTION=1]Andy[/MENTION]). I'm just so fed up with the stereotypes I wish people could see that it's all bullshit. But alas, idiots won't listen to his words anyway, whatever he's dressed or acts like. Alright, maybe I shouldn't have brought this up *hides*
at least I brought this back on top so more people can watch it c:
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Marcus Wrote:I know that [MENTION=21558]Emiliano[/MENTION] (why the fuck can't I quote?! Damn you [MENTION=1]Andy[/MENTION]). I'm just so fed up with the stereotypes I wish people could see that it's all bullshit. But alas, idiots won't listen to his words anyway, whatever he's dressed or acts like. Alright, maybe I shouldn't have brought this up *hides*
at least I brought this back on top so more people can watch it c:
Don't hide. I wasnt trying to shut you down or shut you up. I am aware now that I come off harsher than I intend to. But I do see where you're coming from, I got your point. Of course its easier for straight people to relate to a gay man who does not outwardly give off any indication he is different, who appears and behaves "normal".
But "normal" is code word for straight here. And if personhood and acceptance are only granted to the gay men who can be mistaken for straight men, then it isn't really acceptance.
Homophobia isn't a gay problem, its a straight problem. The way to fix it isn't on gay people to try to be like them - its on them to understand that despite our differences we are humans who should be just as free to love and live as they are. And its my belief that an important step in achieving that, is for gay people to show that regardless of whether we fit the stereotypes or not, we will accept nothing short of that. For all of us.
That's why I see nothing counterproductive about a drag queen voicing that opinion.
As for stereotypes we can help break them by being ourselves and more diverse representation. This is also why I think people who can be out without risking their lives, have at least a small responsibility to be out. But even people who fall into stereotypes deserve to be humanized.
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Emiliano Wrote:Homophobia isn't a gay problem, its a straight problem.
Isnt it also sometimes a gay issue too? I mean when it concerns self image and overall identity? Ive read some posts here, and had some discussions that lead me to believe that homophobia is a major issue in the gay community. Im referring to self hating men.
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Cowboy Wrote:Isnt it also sometimes a gay issue too? I mean when it concerns self image and overall identity? Ive read some posts here, and had some discussions that lead me to believe that homophobia is a major issue in the gay community. Im referring to self hating men.
It affects us yes. How we view ourselves, how we view each other.
But I view internalized homophobia as a related, but separate issue.
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Emiliano Wrote:It affects us yes. How we view ourselves, how we view each other.
But I view internalized homophobia as a related, but separate issue.
That makes sense, I guess those with internalized homophobia arent a part of the gay community, since they would refuse to admit they are actually gay. Its interesting, Ive heard 10% of the population is gay, who knows if that is true? But if it is, that means most gay men are part of that internalized homophobia/ closet group. So in a messed up way, are they normal? and we are abnormal?
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Cowboy Wrote:That makes sense, I guess those with internalized homophobia arent a part of the gay community, since they would refuse to admit they are actually gay. Its interesting, Ive heard 10% of the population is gay, who knows if that is true? But if it is, that means most gay men are part of that internalized homophobia/ closet group. So in a messed up way, are they normal? and we are abnormal?
That's an interesting question. I don't think all gay people who deal with internalized homophobia are closeted or in denial about their sexuality. It's something we all can absorb just by being a part of societies that are homophobic, by being a part of a historically marginalized group. So I wouldn't say that they aren't part of the gay community or identity, just because of that.
But then again, how are we defining the gay "community". And we don't get to fully define ourselves, we are also defined by others. For example, I could sleep with men but not identify as gay, but another person who knows I sleep with men would probably identify me, and treat me, as gay. It's that way with a lot of different aspects of identity too. How we are perceived by others carries just as much, if not more, weight in how we are treated in society than how we perceive ourselves.
Normal is a tricky word too. If norms are set by the majority's standards, then anyone outside of those norms are abnormal. Even people who are straight can fall outside of the spoken and unspoken norms of a society too. I don't think being "normal" is a truly obtainable state for anyone really.
Whether a person is normal or not, seems to be related to how visible their abnormalities are, rather than whether or not they are actually normal. More often than not, normal is a label for how well a person blends in with the rest of their society, how integrated or assimilated they are. How many serial killers or mass shooters have been described as normal guys (up until the point they are caught), but I wouldn't say being a murderer is by any means normal. It's all very socially coded language, in my opinion.
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The video is certainly an eye opener, and very relatable to the struggles of LGBT people. PDA's, even something like holding hands, is still something I am wary of. Until I met [MENTION=23766]Justaguy[/MENTION], I hadn't even kissed a guy in public (or at least not in view of anyone else), and none of the previous guys I've dated were keen on doing that either, but I am gradually feeling a little more at ease doing that. Perhaps I am gradually caring less. He seems to me to be more comfortable displaying affection in public or care a bit less, and I admire him for that  . I think it's what we'd all hope for as time progresses. Thanks for sharing the video [MENTION=1766]princealbertofb[/MENTION], what an inspirational man Panti is.
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Cridders88 Wrote:The video is certainly an eye opener, and very relatable to the struggles of LGBT people. PDA's, even something like holding hands, is still something I am wary of. Until I met [MENTION=23766]Justaguy[/MENTION], I hadn't even kissed a guy in public (or at least not in view of anyone else), and none of the previous guys I've dated were keen on doing that either, but I am gradually feeling a little more at ease doing that. Perhaps I am gradually caring less. He seems to me to be more comfortable displaying affection in public or care a bit less, and I admire him for that . I think it's what we'd all hope for as time progresses. Thanks for sharing the video [MENTION=1766]princealbertofb[/MENTION], what an inspirational man Panti is.
I guess I'm really not up on my gs gossip. I didn't know you two were kissing in public together.
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Marcus Wrote:[MENTION=22821]NativeSon[/MENTION] If you watched the video,
I find it very hard to watch that video. That weird accent and odd cadence is not something I find to be all that pleasant. (Very much like that of [MENTION=1766]princealbertofb[/MENTION]'s usually long-winded nonsense.)
G-string's speech does seem to strike a chord, however. I will give her/him/it that.
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