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[Trigger Warning] Delusional Politics
#1
Exclamation 
I know politics, no matter what the viewpoint is, someone will disagree. I know how heated the discussions have got on GS so I did at least put a "trigger warning," so if politics or the current events are likely to make you upset please, do not read or participate in this thread. You have been warned.

I get that some people do have conservative values, that's fine to have a different opinion. Not going to get into the differences in policies I can accept that people have different views on things. But...

I expect people to be willing intelligent conversation. I expect people to at the very least try to be respectful to each other. If there's anything true about social media, Facebook in this instance, people are anything but. I find it often pointless to try to explain to one of these people who just dismiss everything. So why try right? I usually don't. I am willing to have a conversation but often I see this crap (below).

So a friend of mine posted this meme. I'm not a fan of political memes because they're just shallow, even if I agree with the message.

[Image: ECbAFmPW4AAzmXf.jpg]

I should know better than to go reading comments on political memes but I am always curious. So here's how this meme went down...(names changed, in order in which they were posted)

Charlie
Quote:Please post the incidents that prove these allegations..seriously..dont be part of the problem..

Sherry
Quote:Not enough room on Facebook to post all of the "incidents" that prove it.

Charlie
Quote:yeah, that's a convenient lie..look how much space was used for the accusations..if you can't prove He did those things, then take your dumbass excuse of a brain dead accusations back to your basement

Carl
Quote:I just don’t like him. Plain and simple. However, if I had to give a reason....he’s a bully. That applies to everyone, more so to a person in authority. As president he should be above making fun and teasing folks.

Me
Quote:Just the things he's done since he's been in office? https://theintercept.com/2019/12/19/a-z-...peachment/

Charlie
Quote:that is an entire piece of opinions..jeez

Charlie
Quote:being chastised for being a bully when defending oneself against all the insults he has received is ridiculous, how many lies did you tell in this post? And my friend, have you forgotten what an ass and a bully I can be if pushed?..I cant believe you of all people would judge someone on how to be a president when we both know that neither one of us could have gotten where he is, and I would also think that since he IS the president, whatever moves he makes is therefore presidential..and saying he isnt the proper president after he was voted in legitimately, just means that you dont respect the process, which in turn means you are in the wrong, not Trump..and he has been the underdog from the start..I can't believe you dont like someone that acts just like me..it hurts...

How delusional do you have to be to think all this up? By this guy's logic we should assume any action done by a president we should consider presidential, who cares what it is. So likewise, trying to explain my views and why Trump is a terrible person and so on is a complete waste of time. This guy isn't looking for discussion, he's just trying to piss people off as far as I can tell. I am all for discussing things.

It just blows my mind how this has become the norm. This is apparently what a lot of people think. This is how people approach an "argument." I use quotes because this guy had no intention on searching for the truth, he thinks he has it apparently. Perhaps this is some psychological thing, like the flat earthers who don't actually believe the Earth is flat, they just like pissing the masses off...but in this case they know Trump is an imbecile and unfit for public office but they rather piss off the masses for kicks I guess? It just defies logic otherwise.

I don't get it, all the overt racism, the fact that it exists in this country is embarrassing...land of the free? The willfully ignorant. People who actually buy this and just come in and say "TRUMP 2020!!! WHOOO" just speak volumes about who they are. They'd rather regress to being a caveman than let those lefty sciencey nerds tell us we can't roll coal in our diesel trucks. These type of people just give free speech a bad rap. I mean we're basically making the case for governments like China that democracy doesn't work, freedom of speech needs to be limited, people need to be controlled and told what to do.

It just angers me seeing blatant stupidity, hatred, overt racism and seeing the overall shallowness of some people. I know it isn't everyone and I do know that there are a lot of conservatives in this area and a lot of people do have some backwards views. I think a lot of people at least in this area, white people don't really get what white privilege is all about.

You know there is actually a book about how to win an argument with a "liberal" (actually several of them)... I'm serious.

https://www.amazon.com/How-Fight-Liberal...402265735/

They need a book with someone telling them how to argue. Anyone can be good at arguing, I mean look at how long it took to get cigarettes out of restaurants and schools and warning labels. If you want to learn how to argue go talk to someone who was a spokesperson for a Tobacco company. All you need is a few catch phrases, some anecdotal example to prove a point and sure you can "win" an argument. Doesn't make you right. I mean after all, look at the tobacco companies.


It just drives me crazy, seeing all that has been in the news lately. Police MURDERING black people, white people calling the police on someone for being black and the racist crap being posted on social media. I mean sure, I'm glad these scumbags are being exposed, but why does it exist in the first place. I don't blame it all on Trump, this has had to been here for a while and somehow we're regressing. I don't know what that is, but I wonder if our society is starting to break down. If it is, it is a sad time for the world.
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#2
His apologists summed up in a meme
[Image: 1k5rzy.jpg]
Bernd

Being gay is not for Sissies.
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#3
@Bhp91126 Yeah that pretty much sums it up. I really try to avoid political posts on facebook...it's the armpit of society it seems...maybe a sweaty ass idk.

It just confounds me that people are like that. I mean the people I work with aren't like that, even if they are leaning conservative...they at least have a brain. It's just baffling to me...I mean we could have Ted Bundy or Charles Manson in office and I feel like the same people would follow him as well.

The psychology behind Trump supporters is something else. I don't think there's been anything like it, ever. I mean people lie and bullshit. I mean if Trump said that 2+2=5 I think some people would parrot that and argue that point to math teachers. This is not the same crap that Bush did. I mean people are looking back at Bush thinking "gee, you know, Bush wasn't all that bad." Bush went to war with two countries that we're still at some level involved in. Anyone remember punk rock back around 2004? Anti-Flag?

I admit, I'll have to do a refresher on the details on how Hitler got his power, but I don't think it is really all that similar, it seems like something else. It is crazy....

This guys response to the facebook post, the "Charlie" guy is just...nonsensical. I could say what I think which I guess would be swooping to his level. No one, nobody has replied to his remarks and he just ups the ante anyway...

Quote:Bunch of people hating something or anyone makes me sick..what gets me is there are people all over that have griped about being hated for who they are, and then turn right around and spew hate at others..you ppl that HATE Trump are the evil In this world..if anyone of you tries to tell me that hate is holy and good..then you will only show us who you really are..I've met many ppl that others hated and I've always taken their side, even when they weren't around..it bothers me that ppl who have been victims of hate can evolve into exactly the same type people that hurt them the most..if you havent helped as many ppl as Trump that's fine, but I dont ever focus on the negative sides to ppl, all I focus on saving is the good in them. I will water that good soil until it overtakes the bad soil..to only see something to hate in anyone, is evil..plain and simple, and the next time someone is hurting you for BEING WHO you are, just remember, that hate from you will always bring hate back..I'm disappointed in all of you..you hate someone for hearsay and zero evidence..if they havent found something to pin on Trump by now, are you that damn dumb to believe they missed it?..how could any of you be okay with hating ppl?..anyone...to spew hate like it's the moral thing to do, and make accusations that are based on other accusations, is exactly what happened at Salem. All of you are sick ppl..none of you ran for office, hell, most of you mouthy ppl prolly didnt even vote at all..if you're not willing to run for office and try 'your' brilliant ideas to save the world..then please dont come on here and pretend you're some expert on everything in government..be honest with yourselves and admit, that hating someone is wrong..if you dont think it's wrong to hate..then your hypocrisy knows no bounds..and that is why all of you sound like broken records..it takes some serious stupidity to think that persecuting someone with no evidence(absolutely none) is a moral thing to do..then thank God none of you evil ppl will ever be in control of innocent lives..I cant wait to see all of you weak ass crybabies literally bawl your eyes out..and all of you that hate Trump because your friend or uncle dont like him, you are the spineless ones. To go along with something that you know is wrong..is the dumbest shit I've ever heard

Its as if he doesn't realize he's the one slinging the "hate" word around and he's the one being a "crybaby." People can talk all the shit they want about a sitting president. That's the beauty of free speech. Of course, telling him that is just a colossal waste of time. This is someone who votes...people. I mean, is Trump's base just dumb people? I mean it seems it has to be one way or another...either people overlook what Trump does or they're too stupid or they're trolls.

Frankly I don't know why my friend here bothers sharing liberal memes with people who are not liberal. You're wasting your time if anyone thinks they're going to win anyone over from the other side. If they haven't figured out that Trump is a pile of garbage yet, they won't ever. Then I suppose there are people who are legitimately supporting Trump because they love it, they love that he's promoting police brutality, racism and stacking the cards to try to defraud the American people once again.
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#4
What bothers me is the cultism.

I can handle it when someone acknowledges his flaws, or describes him as the lesser evil. But there are those who treat him as a perfect saint and it's scary. People have disowned family members, taken them out of family wills, and things like that because they did not worship Trump and treat him as a messiah rather than a human being. It's that cult-like devotion that rises above all the scares me so bad, because I wonder what line would they not cross, and does such a line even exist? (I'm sure that if Trump cancels the election--not saying he will, but I've lost a lot of faith in the USA after his election and the worship of him, among other things--but if he did, I bet many of the NRA types who claim they plan to defend America from tyranny will happily be deputized to trash the Constitution and make Trump leader indefinitely. I wouldn't have said this 10 years ago, but I believe it now.)

Had a movie of our current times been written involving Trump and the Republican Party ten years ago, I'm sure some of his cultists today would've back then called it strawman and distorting the Republican Party (and I'd agree with them--then, before I saw the awful truth).

This goes beyond tribal partisan politics. That has always been around, but this is a whole new level that refuses to see other Americans who aren't cultists as real Americans, that is they don't care about America as a whole, but only their tribe/cult. As controversial as I know this will be for me to post here, I do believe that Bush cared about the USA (and Obama and Clinton and Reagan). This is not to endorse them as I have a more nuanced view than saying one was good or evil, corrupt or messianic, and I see them as all flawed human beings who bowed to special interests way too often, but they wanted to see the USA thrive, not just a certain segment of it. Trump does not (and it's sad that when Nazis openly march that it's up to the Bushes not in office to say those Nazis don't represent America as Trump pretty much failed to do). He's like a spoiled child, the most sensitive of special snowflakes, and I've known even Republicans (and former Republicans) who say so, though it's clear that Republicans in office (one or two exceptions not withstanding) are too scared to oppose him.

I'm glad to say I know conservatives who left the Republican Party over Trump or at least refused to vote for him (and in at least one case, one Republican even voted for Hillary as a vote against Trump, saying he never believed he'd vote for her, but Trump was too much, and I haven't talked to him in years so I'm not certain, but I think he resigned his Republican membership when Trump won--he's a fiscal conservative, which Trump is not, not a social conservative, so he's been frustrated with the party for awhile now). If they could just acknowledge he was a problematic human being even if they're glad he's president I'd feel a lot better (and certainly not remove people from wills or disown them because they're not fellow cultists), but they (the ones who bother me) can't.



On the plus side, Trump has accidentally made American better in some ways without meaning to. While I don't consider everyone who voted for Trump racist, it's undeniable that many of them are and see Trump as one of them...but the hardcore ones are still a minority. A shelter I volunteered at for awhile had some very strict policies in place that made it LGBT friendly, and even some of the church-run shelters made some changes leaning that way after a lawsuit.

This is because right after Trump won, the manager of the shelter (this was before I was there) took to using homophobic and racial epithets, as in he didn't care who heard him. He thought the USA was "his" again now that Trump was President, and all the racists could crawl out from under their rocks. He did more than talk, he was abusive. The lawsuit hurt that shelter badly, and not just that, but many grants were revoked, and many philanthropists also withdrew their support until drastic changes were put into place (the white male racist was replaced by a Hispanic woman, btw) and the rules were STRICT (I mentioned in another post that a client who complained about me got in trouble because he phrased it as "lesbians" rather than me personally) and even the once stubborn religious shelters were shaken and lightened up a bit lest they also suffer such results. While one can't really thank Trump for that, one can thank the fact that some hardcore racists were stupid enough to expose themselves once Trump was elected which resulted in better conditions for minorities, including LGBT.
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#5
The good thing @"Pix" is that Trump can't legally cancel the election. The election is on, he can try to cancel the election but it would not go in his favor. I think there would be a lot of backlash from both sides. One thing for sure, my ass will vote one way or another to help get this bastard out of the oval office...not that he's there because he's busy golfing.

But yes cultism. It's weird as hell. The thing is knowing whether these people are actually buying this crap or just saying that they do. I know there is a certain population who just like pissing people off...trolls. Like the people who believe the Earth is flat and other easy to debunk stuff. Just makes you wonder, how many people who think Trump is some sort of God actually believe what they're saying.

But you do raise a good point. I suppose Trump being in office has made the rats come out and in many cases didn't know we had so many of them.
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#6
Hey, most of us need to vent every so often about Trump and the state of...well, everything. Dodgy

I like it when people are civil in discussions and debate.

But politics involves a lot of life and death issues, and people getting angry over facing being abused, beaten, killed, made homeless, made to starve, or face other hard situations because the government of the day decide their dignity/life was too expensive/worthless.
So in general, I am okay with anger and passion.
Criticising or ignoring people because they're too angry is awful and usually an excuse to keep the marginalised marginalised.

Any response to riots or protests along the lines of "I would have cared/listened/agreed with them until this!" makes my skin crawl.
Protests can be hijacked into riots, sometimes they turn into riots because protesting is being ignored; regardless, there was and is a problem at the root not being resolved.

I think a lot of the regressing is perhaps more politics moving away from pretending. Less "Oh our policies just happen to hurt X disproportionately", and more "We don't like X and legislate against them as they deserve it."(immigrants/Muslims/trans/etc)

It's worrying as this politics still garners enough support to take power. And Centrism seems to be in denial about that; but doesn't want to change the discourse too much on migrants and other minorities that are being targeted.

...think I rambled more than replied to your post @InbetweenDreams. Blush
Silly Sarcastic So-and-so
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#7
The view from this side of the Atlantic Ocean is hardly any better. The completely unnecessary referendum to leave the European Union in 2016 unleashed some pretty awful stuff. It was as though people felt empowered to express in public the most awful racist, xenophobic, homophobic, transphobic and at times misogynistic points of view that had been kept corked up for years. The night the referendum result was announced a friend of mine was in Old Compton Street, the gay heart of London's Soho, when a gang of youths marched along the street singing
"Rule Britannia, Britannia rules the waves.
First we'll get the Poles out then the gays."
Just days beforehand that would have been unthinkable. Another friend was queuing at a cashpoint in a town nearby and the man in front turned, brandishing his wad of bank notes and proclaimed, "That's British money now". There really are a lot of people who have problems seeing beyond the ends of their noses, or even making a sensible statement.

In the old days when I could actually be with people, I am not aware that I knew anyone who admired what your Mr Trump is doing. Unfortunately I cannot say the same for admirers of our more recently elected Mr Johnson. Neither governs in the interests of the people. Asking what either of them has actually achieved elicits intellectually impoverished arguments. "He got Brexit done, didn't he," is a response I have heard a few times. Whatever the faults might be with the European system, I have yet to read anything that is evidence of any good that will come from leaving the Union and becoming isolated from our nearest neighbours. The screws that Mr Trump is tightening on Mr Johnson's thumbs to elicit a trans-Atlantic deal to make up for giving up our nearest market and visa/carnet free movement are very, very bad news. How useful to have a pandemic to hide the deals being agreed behind closed doors.
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#8
I'll be honest I have heard very little in our media about brexit and those details. 99% of the coverage I have seen is about the "commander in cheeto" and the coronavirus. I'll also admit I don't hover over the news much, it's just depressing these days.

@"marshlander" You make it sound like it is a bad idea to be "gay" in public is a bad idea in the UK now? Or did I misinterpret that? You'll have to forgive me as I don't know a enough about brexit and all that has followed to understand the full picture of what's going on but it is crazy that these moves have unleashed all this racism... While it is good to expose all that it can be also very bad as more people see this behavior it might be more accepted.

There is very little if anything Trump has done while in office that I can consider "good," there was one thing but I can't think of what it was. Yes, often enough a lot of shady crap goes on when someone big is in the news. Just like Trump signing an executive order against social media (because Twitter fact checked his tweet) is nothing but a distraction that 100k people have died from COVID-19.
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#9
(05-29-2020, 03:03 PM)InbetweenDreams Wrote: I'll be honest I have heard very little in our media about brexit and those details. ...

You're better off not knowing!

Quote: @"marshlander" You make it sound like it is a bad idea to be "gay" in public is a bad idea in the UK now? Or did I misinterpret that? You'll have to forgive me as I don't know a enough about brexit and all that has followed to understand the full picture of what's going on ...

I think things have probably settled down a little although, as I mentioned in a different thread, it is wise to be cautious and I do envy straight couples who don't even have to think about holding hands around the town or sharing a kiss. Some places are obviously safer than others. The incidence of homophobic violence has risen in London since 2016 as in many other places.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-51049336

https://www.hackneycitizen.co.uk/2020/01...-per-cent/

I live in a very rural area and for the most part as long as I don't frighten the horses I don't have a problem, but then, most of the time, I'm here on my own.
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#10
Funny how Obama can't ask for Dijon mustard, something that costs $1.75 for a jar at Walmart, without Fox News calling him a king, while Trump can literally own a golden throne that he uses as an office chair and be called a "humble billionaire."

I'm so disillusioned with politics. I wrote a rant but I don't want to share it publicly, because it's too much about me. If anyone is interested in my mad ramblings, PM me and I'll copy and paste it to you in a PM. Otherwise, I don't want some alt-right message board finding it and calling me a "triggered libtard snowflake."

People have gone mad. I'm convinced we're living inside a simulation, and on November 2016, a glitch drove it haywire.
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