Have the TERFs killed Stonewall

[artyboy]

I don't dare say what I think - I learned my lesson.

hmmm sounds interesting lol?

I am not a fan of the "thought police" and they are not a fan of mine so I now try to avoid subjects where my opinion is "not the correct one" 

.....and my opinion will wake up the thought police every time.

Thought police? What do you by that?

[artyboy]

I'm talking about some people taking Stonewall away from civil rights for LGBT+ as community and only looking at the civil rights for the LGB part but excluding T+ part. I don't think its right.

The things these women have been saying about Trans people is disgusting. I'm not Trans but I have friends and family who are and it scares me to see this happening within an organization
can turn its back on Trans people like this. If you think Trans people are wrong to exist remember not that long ago being gay was treated the same, so why cant be let Trans people exist too. Double standards I call it!

[InbetweenDreams]

I'm talking about some people taking Stonewall away from civil rights for LGBT+ as community and only looking at the civil rights for the LGB part but excluding T+ part. I don't think its right.

You are correct in thinking it isn't right because it simply isn't. There are a few caveats which I'll touch on below.

The things these women have been saying about Trans people is disgusting. I'm not Trans but I have friends and family who are and it scares me to see this happening within an organization
can turn its back on Trans people like this. If you think Trans people are wrong to exist remember not that long ago being gay was treated the same, so why cant be let Trans people exist too. Double standards I call it!

Frankly, I think people who are "ok" with people being gay but not trans, are just those who support gay causes, or pretend to, because it is fashionable. I think a lot of people will say "yeah I'm cool with people being gay" but think butt sex is an abomination. I get that people don't understand trans people just as some don't understand gay people. They don't know why or what makes someone the way they are. Frankly, I don't have to know why people are the way they are. I'm ok without knowing or understanding, I'm perfectly fine with people doing their shit as long as it doesn't impede on me. That being said, I don't understand why so many people have a hard time with that. While I don't know much about the situation in the UK, it sound like the well might have been poisoned by some right wingers. I do think shedding light on those people will eventually flush them out sooner or later, progress isn't made in silence.

As some of you might remember the former Governor of North Carolina passed a bill known as the "bathroom bill" because the right wing put out this scare that men will dress up as women and go in the women's restroom and kidnap your kids or some sort of bullshit. I have a relative who is lesbian who got yelled at by some old woman because she went to use the restroom. That's the kind of nonsense that is created when nonsense bills get passed. Of course that was repealed by the current Governor.

The only caveat I have seen to be valid only applies to biological men who transition to female who are also athletes. You may have heard of Fallon Fox the transgender UFC fighter who broke her opponents skull (orbital bone fracture). Before I continue let me be clear, I'm not saying transgender females should not be able to participate in competitive sports, clearly they should. I think it is important to accept that there are clear differences between biological men and women. Men have larger hearts, denser bones and so forth and how long it takes after transition for things to be on a more even playing field I don't know. What I'm saying is that somehow we need to make it fair for everyone.

How long does it take things like hormone therapy to alter someone's physiology to the point where it would be deemed fair, I don't know. My current understanding is that they go by testosterone levels. I don't know enough to say whether that is sufficient, or if other things like bone density, muscle mass lag behind all that. I imagine that it is a little different for everyone. I do think it is important to talk about though. I'm also not saying I'm correct, so keep that in mind before anyone suggests that I'm anti-trans because that is certainly not the case.

[Adam88]

No idea what Stonewall is, but Feminists ruin everything. So not a big surprise.

[InbetweenDreams]

No idea what Stonewall is, but Feminists ruin everything. So not a big surprise.

It's a LGBTQ orginization in the UK... That's about all I know.
https://www.stonewall.org.uk/

Others can probably chime in with more detail as to what they do.


As for feminists... Why do I get that you might be a big Jordan Peterson fan?

[Adam88]

No idea what Stonewall is, but Feminists ruin everything. So not a big surprise.

It's a LGBTQ orginization in the UK... That's about all I know.
https://www.stonewall.org.uk/

Others can probably chime in with more detail as to what they do.


As for feminists... Why do I get that you might be a big Jordan Peterson fan?

No idea who that is, but thanks for the reference, I'll look him up. But yes, 3rd wave feminism is trash and based solely on misandry, and the victim complex. All of their arguments have been completely torn apart, yet they still shout them from the mountain tops. Feminism is no longer about equality. It's about putting women on a pedestal.

[artyboy]

Thought Stonewall was a US organization tbh.

But it seems to be a UK based LGBTQ organization named after The Stonewall riots (also known as the Stonewall uprising or the Stonewall rebellion) June 28, 1969
at the Stonewall Inn in the Greenwich Village neighborhood of New York City.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots

Learn something every day lol!

Guessing the US people don't know of this event either.

[artyboy]

I'm talking about some people taking Stonewall away from civil rights for LGBT+ as community and only looking at the civil rights for the LGB part but excluding T+ part. I don't think its right.

You are correct in thinking it isn't right because it simply isn't. There are a few caveats which I'll touch on below.

The things these women have been saying about Trans people is disgusting. I'm not Trans but I have friends and family who are and it scares me to see this happening within an organization
can turn its back on Trans people like this. If you think Trans people are wrong to exist remember not that long ago being gay was treated the same, so why cant be let Trans people exist too. Double standards I call it!

Frankly, I think people who are "ok" with people being gay but not trans, are just those who support gay causes, or pretend to, because it is fashionable. I think a lot of people will say "yeah I'm cool with people being gay" but think butt sex is an abomination. I get that people don't understand trans people just as some don't understand gay people. They don't know why or what makes someone the way they are. Frankly, I don't have to know why people are the way they are. I'm ok without knowing or understanding, I'm perfectly fine with people doing their shit as long as it doesn't impede on me. That being said, I don't understand why so many people have a hard time with that. While I don't know much about the situation in the UK, it sound like the well might have been poisoned by some right wingers. I do think shedding light on those people will eventually flush them out sooner or later, progress isn't made in silence.

As some of you might remember the former Governor of North Carolina passed a bill known as the "bathroom bill" because the right wing put out this scare that men will dress up as women and go in the women's restroom and kidnap your kids or some sort of bullshit. I have a relative who is lesbian who got yelled at by some old woman because she went to use the restroom. That's the kind of nonsense that is created when nonsense bills get passed. Of course that was repealed by the current Governor.

The only caveat I have seen to be valid only applies to biological men who transition to female who are also athletes. You may have heard of Fallon Fox the transgender UFC fighter who broke her opponents skull (orbital bone fracture). Before I continue let me be clear, I'm not saying transgender females should not be able to participate in competitive sports, clearly they should. I think it is important to accept that there are clear differences between biological men and women. Men have larger hearts, denser bones and so forth and how long it takes after transition for things to be on a more even playing field I don't know. What I'm saying is that somehow we need to make it fair for everyone.

How long does it take things like hormone therapy to alter someone's physiology to the point where it would be deemed fair, I don't know. My current understanding is that they go by testosterone levels. I don't know enough to say whether that is sufficient, or if other things like bone density, muscle mass lag behind all that. I imagine that it is a little different for everyone. I do think it is important to talk about though. I'm also not saying I'm correct, so keep that in mind before anyone suggests that I'm anti-trans because that is certainly not the case.

I've got a cousin and mate who are in the process of transing (I had to double check that word lol). They both have had issues using public toilets, they get called prevs or worst. So they both don't use public loos as a result.

It's a complex subject indeed. But What I was trying to get at in the OP is these women have double standards. 

Oh to the Sports its boring and should be banned lol!

[Adam88]

As some of you might remember the former Governor of North Carolina passed a bill known as the "bathroom bill" because the right wing put out this scare that men will dress up as women and go in the women's restroom and kidnap your kids or some sort of bullshit. 

Their fears aren't invalid.    

"[b]The Billings Gazette[/b] reports Martinez, who is a family friend, invited the girl into the bathroom on March 23, and touched her breasts and genitalia before penetrating her. The girl told her mother immediately after the assault who then reported it to Casper Police.
The sexually assault happened in a private bathroom at a residence, according to the [b]Casper Times Tribune.[/b]
After the attack, the girl told police “it hurt inside,” according to the Casper Star Tribune.
https://www.fox46.com/news/transgender-w...-bathroom/


Also, biological women deserve a private place, without some ones dick flopping around in their face. And women are fed up with the PC narrative.

 


Sorry, but no matter how hard you want and wish, no matter how many hormones you take, you aren't the opposite sex. If you have a cock and balls, regardless of how you identify, you need to stay the fuck out of womens private area where it's common to disrobe. I even know a lot of Trans people that agree with this. It's common decency, and women have the right not to have their spaces invaded by some aging Hon with a five o'clock shadow and a saggy cock. 

I've said it once, I'll say it again. You can't change your biological sex. Life isn't fair. Deal with it.

[InbetweenDreams]

@andy kindly address the problem above. I don't think it bears any further explanation, clearly he's looking to troll here. GS is either a safe place for those in the LGBTQ community or it's not. It's one thing to have differing opinions and is another when you're blatantly attacking trans people painting them as sexual predators.