[COLOR="Navy"]That is very true Rychard. In America change comes by a) Attaching a controversial measure onto another bill that enjoys majority support, i.e. the Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes Act was attached to the National Defense authorization bill. They have nothing in common, but it guaranteed its passage. b) A case before the supreme court. This is the preferred method because politicians can keep their hands clean and blame it on the justices who have lifetime appointments.
Examples of this are:
-De-segregation of the schools (Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka 1954),
-Interracial Marriage (Loving v. Virginia 1967),
-Abortion (Roe v. Wade 1971),
-The Constitutionality of state abortion control acts (Planned Parenthood of Pennsylvania v. Casey 1992),
-The overturning of State Anti-Sodomy laws (Lawrence v. Texas 2003).
I truly believe that gay marriage will come down to the courts, since it's the American way to get things done and make sure politicians are reelected in November.[/COLOR]
You have just confirmed my understanding of the issues. you do need RMA to be passed.
It would appear that your poltical leaders are maybe trying to let this happen via DC, so they can denile any invovlement in backing gay marriages.
That's exactly what they're hoping for. The District is a funny place. It's the seat of government, and wasn't even considered a city until 1961, when congress decided that we could have a mayor. Any law passed in the District of Columbia that will affect federal employees, or federal services is open to consideration before becoming law. It should be noted that we also have no representation in Congress. We do have a representative, but she is not allowed a vote. If congress decides to overturn a law made by the district, it goes to the supreme court for determination, if they do nothing, it becomes law.
So, they can do nothing, and let marriage equality become law for all federal employees, then let the states duke it out in the courts when federal employees based outside the district sue for the same rights that their district counterparts have, as part of their union contract, or they can overturn the law, and allow the supreme court to decide.
The court at present has only 2 vehement homophobes left. The rest, while not liberal, are constitutional, and almost always rule based strictly on the constitution. Since the constitution does not cover marriage, they would have to rule based on the 14th amendment, which is basically 'equal justice under the law for all citizens'. In that case, unless congress could show substantial harm, same sex marriages would become the law of the land, and DOMA would be wiped off the books in one fell swoop.
marshlander Wrote:Credit where it's due ... it was an unholy alliance of mormons and catholics that did most of the damage. ...
libertylove4 Wrote:... so I guess I will give the catholics a pass for now.
You may be right, but I wouldn't let them off so easily. However, it seems the evidence is in for greater Mormon interference than even I had considered possible. "8: The Mormon Proposition" is a new film I shall make a point of seeing.
Mormons have always rubbed me the wrong way. For about a year, they knocked on my door every Wednesday trying to convert me. Trying to get rid of them I told them that I'm Catholic (Sorta lapsed, but still catholic enough) they told me that I'm burning in hell and must convert. Then I said oh by the way I'm gay too. I thought there eyes were going to bug all the way out of their heads. there reaction was mildly entertaining. After about 9 months of not answering the door, they finally went away. Now I just have to deal with Jehovah's Witnesses, and they're harmless enough.
The funniest thing happened a few weeks ago at my college campus. Two very hot Mormon guys were handing out literature, so to make them super uncomfortable I hit on one of them. The other picked up on it and immediately packed up and left, but the guy I was hitting on winked at me and grabbed my ass as he left. To say I was left speechless is an understatement.
The only representives of the mormon church I see in public are pairs of young men (usually good looking guys) trying to spread the word. Never a man and woman, am I missing something here.
No you are not missing anything. Between the ages of 19 and (usually) 26 Mormons, particularly the young men, are expected to give up a period of two years to serve missions in a part of the world away from their homes and families. They are not allowed to contact their own families except via a weekly letter home and telephone contact is generally forbidden except families are allowed to phone them over Christmas although, in some missions, the missionary is allowed to phone his mum on Mother's Day.
Since they do not accept that being gay is something one is (they are taught it is a "verb, not a noun"!!!) they assume that same sex couples can campaign together. That means a missionary couple are together 24/7, often for about 3 months at a time. There is a strong peer/pastoral system. They have to meet with the team weekly and check in with team leaders daily by phone. They are put in pairs to keep an eye on each other. Obviously if one is gay, that makes this sytem difficult to work.
Women serve missions too, but not until they are 21. They only go for 18 months and they are discouraged from going if they have an opportunity to marry a "worthy" man instead. You will find mixed couples, but they are generally older, married and retired. Pretty much all missionaries are financially supported by families, their own savings (many start a mission fund in childhood) with some support from the tithes and other offerings paid by the church members.
libertylove4 Wrote:Just to warn you this is a rant about the absurdity that is America...
The 14th amendment to the constitution guarantees Equal protection under the law for all citizens, but still gays and lesbians are denied the simplest of rights. The state I reside in (Michigan) has no provision to protect the GLBT community for discrimination and hate crimes. According to the state constitution crimes towards the homosexual community doesn't meet the standards of a hate crime, but yet verbal attacks on evangelical christians does! Right now there are 6 U.S. states that allow same-sex marriage. The Maine and Iowa Marriage Equality laws are under attack saying that we will indoctrinate children in the schools. Prop. 8 passed in California using the same tactics. I may sound bitter, but I am sick and tired of being treated like a second class citizen on the land of the free and the home of the brave or should I say the land of the privileged and the home of the bigoted. On Sunday, Oct. 11 there was a large gay rights march and rally in Washington D.C. 250,000 GLBT people and allies turned out, but the event was largely ignored by the mainstream media. The Republican candidate for Governor in the State of Virgina vows to overturn an Anti-Discrimination act geared towards the LGBT community. The the Minority leader in the House of Representatives Rep. John Boehner is trying to kill a Hate Crimes bill and wants to submit a bill to protect christians instead he says "You are christian by birth, Homosexual by choice."
I am so sick and tired of this, even with a pro-gay rights president we still have Don't Ask Don't Tell and the Defense of Marriage Act. At the rate it's going I think Mexico will have full equality before we will.
Thanks all for listening, just needed to vent my anger
Here's the article on Rep. Boehner is you are interested
Boehner: Protect the Religious, Not Gays | News | Advocate.com
I felt that way too when I first came out. But I believe it is more important to focus on our victories rather than our challenges. We have come so far since stone wall and the ride is not over. The GLBT community will continue to push for equal rights now and in the future. It will get better. Also venting is an American's right
![[-]](https://gayspeak.com/images/duende_v3_local/collapse.png)
