God vs. Gay

[kbman]

The God I worship is a just God, the one who said just "love and accept me", everything else is bullshit, taught by crotchety old men who are misguided zealots that don't have anything better to do

[East]

I have no use for most religion (some....like Pagan and Wiccan...are OK with me) and consider it a disease as well...but I am one of the 75% who does believe in God...I just don't know what she looks like:biggrin:

I categorically reject the Bible (planting two crops in the same field and you will be stoned to death? YIKES) but I like spirituality and many years ago I started going to Shirley MacLaine's website because I like how she thinks outside of the box and defines herself and her spirituality and resists other people doing it for her. I think I have been a member of Shirley MaClaine's group longer than any other on the Internet and have had really great discussions over the years. If you ever are interested in spiritual discussions or are a fan of MccLain you might want to check it out...

Encounter Board : Shirley MacLaine


IMO God wants you to love yourself for who you are...evolve...tell the truth because it will set you free...and leave this place a little better than when you got here on every level.

I like to consider all forms of spirituality and the reason I reject Judeo Christianity and Islam is because I have considered them in the past and rejected them...

Modern Pantheism (God is everything...everything is God) is an interesting belief....Most of the time I think that both God and the Devil...good and evil...yin and yang...heaven and hell...all exist within each one of us and people who write the Bible and mystics who think they know THE TRUTH might be externalizing their inner struggles...much like Ted Haggard externalized his self hatred on to other gay people with his "rules"....

[toomuch45]

The God I worship is a just God, the one who said just "love and accept me", everything else is bullshit, taught by crotchety old men who are misguided zealots that don't have anything better to do

i soo agree

[Marvinteck]

No comment

[fredv3b]

The God I worship is a just God, the one who said just "love and accept me",

Who told you that?

[Darius]

lol, I was always of the opinion that when your God gives you lemons, make lemonade. If your God always gives you lemons, get a new God.

But yeah, I rejected Christianity mostly because I didn't care to believe that a loving god could be wrathful to the point of slaughtering millions for falling short of his standards. (the flood, the apocolypse prophecies, the concept of original sin, etc.) Besides that, most ppl who call themselves christian today aren't really christian(at least not the way I see it), so why bother associating yourself with them? I'd rather not risk the possibility that ignorance is contagious...

How many wars have been fought over exactly who was a prophet and who was a son of god, and which prophet did what?

To be fair, that has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with human pride and social influence. How many people have died for national pride and solidarity? For cultural movements against "corruption"? For the cause that "Our ways are civilized and theirs are not so we must teach them our ways, even at sword-point if we must." It all boils down to "I'm right, and you're wrong, and I'm going to get you to agree with me or I cannot accept the possibility of you living and spreading your unacceptable ideas to others." and top that psychosis off with the far more instinctual reaction of "You are not like me, you are thus not prone to think or act similarly to me and are thus an unknown influence in my existence, one I cannot trust, because you are an influence I cannot control." People always want to feel right, fear what is different from them (and thus questionable at best or assumed to be dangerous at worst), and often take extreme measures to stamp out their anger, their fear and their shame, which brings us to the whole point of "You remind me of something in myself which I do not like. To eliminate my discomfort, I will eliminate you." Anyone who's been bullied in high school for being gay should be familiar with that one.....

Simply put, human beings desire control, and "My Invisible omnipotent super-powered Universe-ruling patron says I'm right and you should agree with him, and thus agree with me" is slightly more convincing than "I'm right because I have the support of more people than you" so most people default on the "My God says I'm right" argument simply because it makes them feel more significant and is more convincing, both to the person arguing the point and those who listen.

The Christian church was built on a fraud - the teachings of Paul have nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus. There is no connection between the two. It was further corrupted by the Romans as a way to control their diverse empire, providing a relatively easy religion to roll out across Europe, Asia, Africa and the Middle East.

No argument here.....

Religion screws people up. I'm living proof. Thanks to the "teachings" of the church I believed I was evil and would burn in hell. Thanks, God. Great idea that, make me gay to test me, and then try and make me live my life you want it to be, rather than the way you made me. What a wonderful way to live my life, eh? Be happy and have eternal damnation. Or be unhappy but be promised eternal life - oh, wonderful.

Correction. Social and Cultural programming screws people up (of which large organized religions play a HUGE role); through repetition and reinforcement it plants ideas and standards deeply in your psyche, often as far as the unconscious level, that your waking mind has difficulty arguing with because it's hard-wired into you at that point as just a part of 'the way things are'. Religion is a tool in this case, a means to an end. (see above explanation on human pride and control)

Today my "religion" is Dawkinsian or Devout/Radical Aetheist.

What's Dawkinsian? Now I'm curious!

Ancient Egypt embraced it as a natural part of life. Ancient China encouraged it between women (though granted, discouraged it between men. Wonder if that's where the modern-day double standard got it's roots?)

Ancient Greece is rather famous for it's homosexual acceptance, even to the point where soldiers were encouraged to have relationships with one another because it was felt they would fight harder for a lover. These were often soldiers who would, today, identify themselves as 'straight' I'd imagine.

Actually, the opinions in ancient china varied depending on the era and the personal tastes of the emperor of the time, if I'm not mistaken. Before that area was China proper, King Ling of what would become the province of Wei had a male lover named Mi Tsu-hsia. One day they were walking through the royal gardens and this young lover picked a ripe, sweet peach. Rather than eat it all himself, he gave half of it to the King, who was deeply touched by this gesture and told his courtiers of the event and of his great love for Mi Tsu-hsia, and soon thereafter it became somewhat common to call homosexual relations "yu-tao", or 'sharing the peach.' Also, it had a larger amount of acceptance among Taoists from what I know.

In Greece it was considered so common that it was often said "A wife for children, a Hetarai(something akin to a greek version of the geisha) for conversing, and a Youth for pleasure (youth in this context almost always referring to a young boy/man between the age of 13 and 20). In point of fact, it was part of a standardized social system in some greek city states that a young man of 13 was brought up in a romanticized relationship with an older man of 30 or older, a trusted friend of the boy's family, who helped him learn philosophy, greek politics, how to behave properly, and how to behave in erotic encounters (all of these were taught interactively and experientially, a.k.a. he would teach politics by taking the young man to places where politics debate and involve them both in the conversation, rather than just explain things. It was the same for lovemaking, though the young man and his older patron would generally engage in lovemaking with each other.) This was so prevalent in some places that at certain points in greek history, a boy was not a man until he "drank of men's milk", a very clear and specific reference to fellatio.

On the note of greek religion, there are so many bisexuals in the greek pantheon it could make your head spin. Apollo fell in love with a youth named Hyacinthus, when Iolaus dissapeared, Heracles was heard screaming in anguish and sorrow for miles "O sweet Iolaus, I mourn for the union of our thighs" and that wasn't his only male lover. Here's a short list of a few more men he loved: Abderus, Admetus, Chonus, Dryops, Haemon, Hylas, Iokastus, .....I could go on, there are more.
Zeus had so many lovers that he had to hide half of them in the starry heavens, a young Prince named Ganymede among them. Zeus made him cupbearer of the Gods, responsible for pouring out the ambrosia that the Gods drank. To keep Hera from killing the boy, Zeus turned him into the constellation of Aquarius and according to some myths continued to visit him there. This myth is so prevalent that in greek and Latin speech, the name Ganymede (and it's latin translation 'catamitus')became synonymous with a youth playing the receptive role (both sexually and otherwise) in a homoerotic relationship. Apparently Zeus is a power-top...
And there's more. Hepahestus had Achille's father as one of his lovers. Pan was known to pursue shepherds as ardently and often as he pursued nymphs. Poseidon include among his lovers Pelops, Caenis, and Leander (though Caenis was turned into a man by Poseidon before becoming his lover, so this might be interpreted as more of a transgender reference than anything)
Dionysus wasn't just the God of Wine and Ecstacy, he was also raised as a girl and dressed in women's atire in a large number of his representations. He was also known to act affeminately and be an avid bisexual(then again, in greek mythology, who wasn't...) He went on a journey to find his mother, when he met Prosymnus, who promised to show him where his mother was if Dionysus would sleep with him. Dionysus gave his promise that he would, but asked if he could do it after coming back from seeing her. Well, Prosymnus died before Dionysus returned, and to keep his word, Dionysus carved a phallus with a stake coming out of the base from fig wood. stuck the stake end into the dirt of Prosymnus' grave, and then sat on the wooden dildo to fulfill his vow.

My goodness, I'm rambling...I have a thing for Greek Mythology, so I hope you'll forgive me, but yes indeed, I do prefer to worship the Greek Gods, and I think Gay Men, Lesbians, and Bisexuals would have a much richer culture if we looked to religions and cultures older than Christianity and Rome for spiritual legitimacy.

[bluefox4000]

I'm an Atheist....so never needed this stuff. I am what I am and I just live my life.

Mick

[fenris]

--/--

I Quote only by textmarks ... because i don´t want to waste so much of the Internet ;-)

The best greek declaration of allowed relationships are the three "bubbles"... one with male/male one with male/female and one with female/female pictures in them....

And which cultural circle had the "legion of lovers" ? Only couple-male/male-soldiers ? Because their King was convinced that soldier-couples are the best soldiers... his opinion was that a man will protect his lover´s life in the same way - or better - as his own life ?

[marshlander]

... What's Dawkinsian? Now I'm curious! ...

I don't suppose we'll see the lovely kitschcamp for a while since he is busy relocating, but he was referring to Richard Dawkins' brand of rationalism explained in his many books including "The God Delusion".

[kitschcamp]

What's Dawkinsian? Now I'm curious!

Following the teachings of Richard Dawkins. Radical Aetheist. Very very sharp guy.

In Greece it was considered so common that it was often said "A wife for children, a Hetarai(something akin to a greek version of the geisha) for conversing, and a Youth for pleasure (youth in this context almost always referring to a young boy/man between the age of 13 and 20).

There was a teaching in the Middle East that man on man sex made the receptive man more manly, as he was getting "more" through someone ejaculating into them.

My goodness, I'm rambling...I have a thing for Greek Mythology, so I hope you'll forgive me, but yes indeed, I do prefer to worship the Greek Gods, and I think Gay Men, Lesbians, and Bisexuals would have a much richer culture if we looked to religions and cultures older than Christianity and Rome for spiritual legitimacy.