Death Penalty for being gay

[peterinmalaga]

I read with horror a couple of days ago how gays are being treated in Malawi and Uganda. Police are arresting anyone who is involved in “homosexual acts”. Gays are going underground and are difficult to contact by groups working to prevent Aids. In Uganda the parliament wants to impose the death penalty for some gay “crimes”. Gay sex is illegal in 36 countries in Africa. Phumi Mtetwa, executive director of the Lesbian and Gay Equality Project, based in South Africa places the blame for these homophobic outrages on Evangelical groups from the USA.
This article from the Guardian gives more details :
Malawi police launch operation against high-profile gay and lesbian people | World news | guardian.co.uk

[marshlander]

Thanks for raising this, Peter. I hope people have been following the discussion in this thread Uganda - GaySpeak Gay Forums Community

Owing to the way this site is organised it is not always possible to see active discussions in the news forums.

[fredv3b]

I kind of have mixed feelings regarding these American Evangelical groups. On the one hand they have gone in to some of the most homophobic countries in the world with stories of organised gay groups etc. and have provided funding and resources to local preachers etc., the resulting anti-gay pogrom is entirely predictable and they have to take their share of the blame. On the other hand, to the best of my knowledge, none were encouraging the death penalty or mob violence, most were trying to export ex-gay therapy which must be regarded as humane by comparison. The perpetrators of these outrages are Africans, the majority of the stirring up of the current heated anti-gay feeling was done by native African preachers, albeit initially spurred on and supported by American Evangelical groups. I suspect that post-Colonial guilt is stopping the liberal West from giving much of the blame to Africans.

[Kiid]

Its sickening what is happing!!! I wish that it changes and the Christians fuck off and keep to themselves. I don't have a problem with then excluding with shit like this!

[marshlander]

... The perpetrators of these outrages are Africans, the majority of the stirring up of the current heated anti-gay feeling was done by native African preachers, albeit initially spurred on and supported by American Evangelical groups. I suspect that post-Colonial guilt is stopping the liberal West from giving much of the blame to Africans.

As usual, Fred, you get to the important points of the matter. Malawi has been independent for more than forty-five years and, while this is a tiny amount of time for a democracy to bed down, that time spans more than a single generation, and could have been more than enough time for a state to determine that it will not perpetrate the ills of past regimes.

I spent several hours working on a reply to the thread which has been sidetracked on to American culture last night and eventually decided not to post, at least for the moment. This would seem to be a case in point though. As a non-American, I cannot help but feel that many Americans are brought up to believe in a superiority of their ways over others. I have no doubt that many actions are carried out with the best of intentions, but we all sometimes fail to acknowledge that independent states are just as entitled to self-determination as anywhere else, or that people do things differently in other places. This applies whether you decide to bomb the hell out of a country you don't like very much, kidnap babies from an earthquake zone, help them "fix" their "problem" with minority sexualities, "help" them exploit mineral wealth or "donate" medicines we can no longer use. The trouble is that when we focus on the single issue that concerns us personally we fail to see a bigger picture.

I am fully aware of the contradictions of the stance I have taken on raising the issue of what's been happening in Uganda, Nigeria and elsewhere in Africa. In the end those issues have to be fixed by the people who live there. We were part of the problem in forcing Christianity on Africans during the colonial era. I don't suppose any 19th century missionary had any idea of the monster that would grow from their gospel of peace. Who knows whether, had we left them alone, African peoples would not have found some other way of victimising glbt minorities? But, where a fire is raging, as has indeed been the case in the troubles being faced by lgbt people all over the continent, throwing petrol on it cannot but do further harm.

If the governments of those countries and the leaders of the religions who have supplied the missionary fuel for this fire cannot stop their members and citizens carrying out this kind of vigilante proselytising it strikes me that they should carry at least some responsibility to make it very clear that we do not condone these "answers", do not do things this way and that we made grave mistakes in following these paths in the past. There are all sorts of ways we can encourage the leaders of these superstition-led pogroms to think again. In the meantime there continues to be suffering on a scale most of us cannot even imagine.

[fredv3b]

Malawi has been independent for more than forty-five years and, while this is a tiny amount of time for a democracy to bed down, that time spans more than a single generation, and could have been more than enough time for a state to determine that it will not perpetrate the ills of past regimes.

My point was more about blaming individual Africans rather than their nation states, how you are entirely correct.

I spent several hours working on a reply to the thread which has been sidetracked on to American culture last night and eventually decided not to post, at least for the moment.

Sorry for that.

As a non-American, I cannot help but feel that many Americans are brought up to believe in a superiority of their ways over others.

I have no doubt you are correct but I don't think that is the problem. I think the two problems are, one exporting some of their ways (without their precious checks and balances, e.g. no US Court would ever find the kidnapping of babies in the US acceptable), and two, beleiving that American ways can be suddenly taken on by another country all at once (e.g. creating a system of direct Presidential elections in Afghanistan and being astonished to find that President is corrupt). Regan's National Security Advisor was fond of pointing out that the transition from authoritarian dictatorship to full democracy took Britain over 600 years.

Who knows whether, had we left them alone, African peoples would not have found some other way of victimising glbt minorities?

You seem to assume that African gays weren't persecuted before the arrival of the White Man, since we know so little about the original African societies its impossible to say.

[peterinmalaga]

What shocked me most was the photo in the Guardian article. If I knew how to post photos, I would post it (hint!). The photo says it all, puts the problem in a nutshell. The unbelievable hatred and derision shown by the crowd jeering these two young gay men handcuffed together sums it all up. The gay men there have a courage that we Europeans have not needed to show since the horrors of the Third Reich. I live very close to Africa, you can see it from Gibraltar or Tarifa on most clear days. I have always thought that a visit to Africa is like traveling back in time to the Middle Ages. It helps us realize how far we have come in the West but also how powerless we feel when confronted with such scenes. I just wish Barack Obama could use his power and influence over the Evangelical churches and the African states that are responsible. These people are as corrupt as fuck. You would think they could be bribed (via Western aid) into educating their people about their barbarous lifestyles.

[marshlander]

[marshlander]

... Who knows whether, had we left them alone, African peoples would not have found some other way of victimising glbt minorities?

... You seem to assume that African gays weren't persecuted before the arrival of the White Man, since we know so little about the original African societies its impossible to say.

Actually I was saying quite the reverse. I don't know what the situation was like in Malawi pre-colononisation, but it is likely that homosexuality was accepted in some African societies as mentioned in the Uganda thread.

[marshlander]

This mob violence is widespread. At least while the citizens are diverted in such activity the authorities can carry on doing whatever it is they do :frown:

This is from a Human Rights Watch report from Kenya. KEMRI is the Kenya Medical Research Institute, a government health centre that provides HIV/AIDS services to the community.

Earlier the same day, Faridi, with police, forcibly entered another private individual's home, claiming that the two people in the house were homosexual ...
The mob beat senseless another man who was approaching the health center and was about to set him on fire when the police arrived and took him into custody as well.

A large crowd gathered outside the police station where the five were being held. A religious leader addressed the mob, saying all homosexuals should be driven out of Mtwapa, and another speaker encouraged the mob to not bother bringing homosexuals to the police but rather to take the law into its own hands, ... Smaller groups reportedly went to the homes of other people suspected of being gay and threatened them.

Local sources told Human Rights Watch that the mob attacks appeared planned rather than spontaneous. According to reports received by Human Rights Watch, none of the attackers have been arrested.

Accounts of the attacks and arrests filled the front pages of the next day's local and national newspapers.

A mob attacked and severely beat up another KEMRI volunteer on February 13, and the police again took the victim into custody. The same day, a person was beaten up in Mombasa on suspicion of being gay, and a second person was attacked in Mombasa on February 16. Local activists are attempting to determine the condition and whereabouts of those victims.

Sheikh Ali Hussein declared on the radio on February 17 that Muslims would march in Mtwapa on February 19 to protest against homosexuality. Local activists fear the demonstration may extend to mosques along the coast, including in Mombasa.

"The police need to arrest the attackers and put a halt to what appears to be a coordinated nationwide attack on people perceived to be homosexual," Nath said. "The disruption of lifesaving HIV/AIDS work could mean a public health catastrophe as well as a human rights disaster."

The attacks and hate-mongering and the government's failure to act have spread fear in the lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender community, Human Rights Watch said. Several people have gone into hiding; others are preparing to flee their homes at a moment's notice.

The attacks on the health center risk exacerbating the HIV/AIDS epidemic not only among men who have sex with men, but among all Kenyans. HIV prevalence in Kenya is more than 16 percent, and more than 1.5 million Kenyans have died from HIV/AIDS-related illness.

Vigilante violence and panic promote an atmosphere in which any discussion of sexuality will be silenced, and vulnerable populations driven underground, Human Rights Watch said. KEMRI's Mtwapa offices have been closed since the attacks. There are plans to reopen the center, but KEMRI staff remain nervous about further attacks.

Although the declared reason for the six men's detention was to protect them, news reports said authorities asked the men to submit to forensic examinations to determine if they are homosexual. Five of them refused and the sixth consented and was examined, although no "evidence" of homosexuality is reported to have been found. Forensic medical examinations to "prove" homosexual conduct are archaic and discredited. If conducted without genuine consent, they may constitute torture or inhuman or degrading treatment, Human Rights Watch said.