Death Penalty for being gay

[fredv3b]

I just wish Barack Obama could use his power and influence over the Evangelical churches and the African states that are responsible. These people are as corrupt as fuck. You would think they could be bribed (via Western aid) into educating their people about their barbarous lifestyles.

Peter, two things. One education takes time. Two we can't bribe them into doing everything we want them to do, landmines, AIDS control, intellectual property, corruption, emigration, terrorism, at some point we have to draw a line, usually at the limits of our self-interest.

Actually I was saying quite the reverse. I don't know what the situation was like in Malawi pre-colononisation, but it is likely that homosexuality was accepted in some African societies as mentioned in the Uganda thread.

King Mwanga of Buganda was according to my reading something of a tyrant, so what was OK for him may not have been alright for everyone else in Buganda, and what about the rest of sub-Saharan Africa?

[peterinmalaga]

Thanks for the photo, Marsh. Those two poor men look as though they know exactly what lies ahead of them. I am sure it is actually academic whether the bill proposed by Uganda includes the bit about the death sentence or not. Anyone condemned to 14 years or life in an African prison might well prefer the death penalty.

[peterinmalaga]

Peter, two things. One education takes time.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by that Fred. Germans were re-educated twice within a space of 12 years, once in 1933 and again in 1945. And the effect of the re-education was instantaneous. There wasn't a single Nazi to be found in Germany in 1946.
Two we can't bribe them into doing everything we want them to do.
The Swedish government is not quite so sure about this and have considered using just this strategy. It would also be the cheapest and save the British government quite a lot of money. I am quite sure you can buy anything you want in Uganda if you have the cash.

[fredv3b]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by that Fred. Germans were re-educated twice within a space of 12 years, once in 1933 and again in 1945. And the effect of the re-education was instantaneous. There wasn't a single Nazi to be found in Germany in 1946.

Despite the initial education there were a surprising number of Jew hiders in Germany. Between 1938 and 1939 the number of Fascists in Britain remarkably decreased, but I am sure education wasn't the cause.

The Swedish government is not quite so sure about this and have considered using just this strategy. It would also be the cheapest and save the British government quite a lot of money. I am quite sure you can buy anything you want in Uganda if you have the cash.

Anything yes, everything I doubt it. The Swedish example is interesting, they have threatened to withdraw aid, they weren't able to buy good behaviour with their money. I'd like to think that their threat will be successful, but I doubt it. If these countries had enlightened, efficient, non-corrupt Government's they would not need aid.

[peterinmalaga]

"I am sure education was not the cause"
Fred, I am reminded of the Irish school inspector who asked the class teacher what method she used for teaching reading, to which she replied: "I use the Sayortump method". On being asked how that method worked she replied " I tell the children "You say it or I'll tump you!"
There's more than one way to educate and hungry mouths make quick learners.

[fredv3b]

Straight Ugandans know perfectly well how to be civil to their gay neighbours, they just don't want to.

In any case money may be counter-productive. The red-pepper newspaper has several times run, essentially the same story, claiming that international gay organisations were pouring money into the country to promote homosexuality. I hate to think what they would do if they had proof.

[WINTERFRONT]

this is sad... damn

[peterinmalaga]

Straight Ugandans know perfectly well how to be civil to their gay neighbours, they just don't want to.

Education is al about motivation, Fred.

In any case money may be counter-productive. The red-pepper newspaper has several times run, essentially the same story, claiming that international gay organisations were pouring money into the country to promote homosexuality. I hate to think what they would do if they had proof.

I was talking about the withholding of money by Western governments. I think that gay organisations should continue to help their brothers and sisters in Africa. Who in the West gives a shit what homophobes in Africa say. It's what they do or can't do that matters

[fredv3b]

I apologise, I know I am being overly negative this evening.

Education is al about motivation, Fred.

How do you motivate your average barely literate Ugandan not to beat up their gay neighbour despite what their pastor is saying?

I was talking about the withholding of money by Western governments.

I'd like to believe that distinction mattered to the Red Pepper.

I think that gay organisations should continue to help their brothers and sisters in Africa.

I agree, however discretion is still the better part of valour.

Who in the West gives a shit what homophobes in Africa say. It's what they do or can't do that matters

When its stirring up anti-gay pogroms (e.g. the alleged planned gay marriage in Kenya that appears never to have been) then I give a shit.

[peterinmalaga]

Du hast recht und ich habe meine Ruhe, Fred.
Rought translation: You're right, Fred, and going to enjoy my dinner now.
No offence intended, Fred.