votting

[marshlander]

Dictator??? How am i a dictator for not being scared of people??

Since we are talking politics here I am assuming that either you are not quite saying what you mean or you haven't quite meant what you said. One interpretation of "not being scared of other MPs" is that you will attempt to do what you feel is right regardless of any decisions the cabinet reaches in joint discussions. Similarly, ignoring the press is risking becoming unaware of other points of view. For all its faults I would place a little more trust in government by committee than I would in the vision of one man (or woman). My views on people on a mission don't need rehearsing here.

Still this is hardly relevant since the starting point for your imaginary political career is to exclude yourself from the democratic process

[albabonzai]

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredv3b
I'm sorry Baz we would not. We couldn't even produce enough Merchant ships to import the food and raw materials we needed.
.
You have been mislead! Its all american propaganda!

Fredv3b is actually right Baz. the U.K was going to starve into submission if they weren't getting U.S help with food and oil. The U.K try'ed everything like getting food from the U.K colonies but most of them were intercepted and destroyed by the German armies. even normal cargo ships were being rebuilt to get food and oil from the colonies. + Churchill requested many times for the U.S to help.

You have been fed lies, lies i tell you!

[Wintereis]

Hmm, even if things are done differently when it comes to legislative measures such as California's proposition 8. Your election of representatives is still much like ours, Bazz. Do you think we would have had two terms of Bush in office if it were not for people's indifference or belief that their vote didn't matter? Really, if you refuse to participate in the elective process, you don't have much room to complain about what your Parliament and Prime Minister are doing. Even if you vote for some Joe blow that has no chance of winning, you do have a multiparty system, you will at least be challenging the system of corruption and inadequate governance you are so opposed to. Churchill is dead, and you won't get a chance to vote for him, but you may be able to vote for the next Churchill.

Winston Churchill: “Never, never, never give up”.

[marshlander]

You have been fed lies, lies i tell you!

While you and your colleagues are always told the truth?

About 200 former military personnel who worked at or near the test sites and up to 100 Aboriginal residents of blast-affected land will join 800 British ex-servicemen suing for damages.
Australian soldiers used as guinea pigs in Maralinga nuclear tests Antinuclear

[fredv3b]

Do you think we would have had two terms of Bush in office if it were not for people's indifference or belief that their vote didn't matter?

Surely it was only the votes of people in 'swing States' that matter, when it comes to Presidential elections? If people really thought that Bush was doing a bad job (worse than Kerry would do) surely they wouldn't be indifferent, they would have bothered to vote? Surely, political indifference is a sign that the people think the country is reasonably governed?

[Wintereis]

Surely it was only the votes of people in 'swing States' that matter, when it comes to Presidential elections? If people really thought that Bush was doing a bad job (worse than Kerry would do) surely they wouldn't be indifferent, they would have bothered to vote? Surely, political indifference is a sign that the people think the country is reasonably governed?

That is an interesting analysis, Fred, but fortunately and unfortunately that does not match the reality of the situation. First, as the most recent presidential election illustrated, swing states were not the only states that mattered. Heavy campaigning in traditionally Republican states during the primary provided President Obama with the majority of votes needed to gain the Democratic nomination over Hilary Clinton. In addition, Obama was able to swing large republican strong holds in Virginia, North Carolina, and Iowa. He also gained electoral votes from Main and Nebraska, the only two states that allow a split within their electoral college. While Florida, Ohio, and Pennsylvania--swing states--were important to his win, his ability to redraw the election map proved that those are not the only states worth running in.

As far as Bush's win and your opinion that the American people were satisfied with their government, well, Zogby and Gallup put his approval rating at 41% on election day, 2004--this is after three major boosts he received including one, after 9/11, which gave him the highest approval rating on record. It was more a matter of most people believing that there would be no essential difference between the Democrats and Republicans on domestic issues and that Kerry would be too weak on foreign issues. Neither of these instances has anything to do with satisfaction. If you talk to most Americans, you will find that they believe the government is no longer working. Bush left office with a 25% approval rating.

“Americans overwhelmingly believe that the government is broken, according to a national poll released Sunday.

But the CNN/Opinion Research Corp. survey also indicates that the public overwhelmingly holds out hope that what's broken can be fixed. Eighty-six percent of people questioned say that the system of government is broken, with 14 percent saying no.”

[fredv3b]

Heavy campaigning in traditionally Republican states during the primary provided President Obama with the majority of votes needed to gain the Democratic nomination over Hilary Clinton.

I was referring to the Presidential election itself, but fair point, choosing who will be in an election is a significant part of American democracy.

In addition, Obama was able to swing large republican strong holds in Virginia, North Carolina, and Iowa.

I'm sorry but you haven't really mentioned enough states to convince me that 'swing states' no longer exist, just that they are not as narrowly defined as previously.

I didn't use the word satisfied, its too strong. I am afraid I really cannot comment on Presidential job approval ratings, no equivalent statistic gets media attention over here. I just don't understand what they really mean, as you point out President Bush's approval ratings were sky-high following 9/11, despite a lack of evidence (as far as I am aware) that a different President would have acted significantly differently.

You raise an interesting conundrum, why do Americans say the system of government is broken and yet not vote to do something about it? (I didn't know idea the statistics were quite that high.) To my mind there are three possibilities. First, that the voters genuinely believe that the system of government is broken, but don't care, I think we can agree that we can rule that one out. Second, that the voters think that fixing the system of government is practically impossible because either they will be offered candidates like Kerry, who don't offer a real change or if they do elect a reformer he won't actually be able to achieve any actual reform in Washington. This is no so much apathy as a considered view that although politics and government are important actual voting has become ineffectual. Although I don't doubt that this would be be an accurate description of the thoughts of a few voters, I haven't seen any evidence that a large number of voters think that way, can you show me any. My third possibility is that voters are 'lying' to opinion pollsters, they are genuinely dissatisfied with the system of government and think that reform (of some sort) is in order and when asked if they think the system is broken answer "yes" rather than answer "no" and imply that they basically think things are OK. Furthermore I suspect that although they believe real political change would be a good thing, that it doesn't outweigh things such as not electing someone who would upset the apple-cart of the economy. (Also I suspect there is a lack of agreement on what are the right reforms).

My basic point is philosophical. If voters believed that they were subject to bad government, they would do something about it. (I do mean bad government, not merely poor or a source of general dissatisfaction). If they do not do something about it, then we should not believe their claims of being badly governed to be accurate.

N. B. On re-reading my previous post I think the phrase 'not badly governed' would have more accurately described my thoughts rather than 'reasonably governed. I apologise.

[eastofeden]

I am afraid I disagree. People quickly cease to be apathetic when they have a reason to. People did not vote against Prop. 8 because, as far as they were concerned, it did not affect them, their rights were not in jeopardy.

I wish you were right but my experience has shown me that you are incorrect unfortunately. I feel very STRONGLY about asserting your voice and due to that I worked alot within the gay community to help register voters and try to get them to the voting booth and I cannot tell you (really...it is THAT bad) how many people simply couldn't care enough to take a few minutes from their day to vote...and gay issues were on the ballot (Briggs Initiative comes to mind). I would start with a list of the excuses I heard but I would rather block it out and beleive in humanity.

[fredv3b]

If you honestly tell me that significant numbers of gay people could not be bothered to vote against the Briggs initiative and Prop. 8 then I will believe you, stand corrected and more than a little dumb-founded. Sadly, if it were true then it makes me have much less sympathy with the gays of California.

[matty7]

it is on the news it is votting soon it is mr brown and mr camon . who is the best if yous vote for.what happends about it it when it is the winner. i like mr brown becase him is nice. i dont now what one

voting is a personal thing - ask your family or friends joseph on which side will provide/or promise the best things for your needs or your familys needs - do remember though that most parties promise lots of things but once they are in power they rarely deliver