US Congress might decide on army gay ban today

[eastofeden]

Especially galling is seeing queers now supporting the GOP in increasing numbers. These ass hats apparently just don't seem to make the connection between the GOP and institutionalized homophobia .

ITA...boggles my mind.

[fredv3b]

Perhaps gays and lesbians are realising that the Democrats are all talk and almost no actual achievement, President Obama being the worst of them. Perhaps they hope that their votes may lead, in time, in time to change within the GOP, and in the meantime would like lower taxes.

Also all political parties are at best a loose confederation on waring tribes. I suspect gays and lesbians are only voting for socially moderate Republican candidates.

[Ryhunt86]

Perhaps gays and lesbians are realising that the Democrats are all talk and almost no actual achievement, President Obama being the worst of them. Perhaps they hope that their votes may lead, in time, in time to change within the GOP, and in the meantime would like lower taxes.

Also all political parties are at best a loose confederation on waring tribes. I suspect gays and lesbians are only voting for socially moderate Republican candidates.

Its an oversimplification to call the parties loose confederations of warring tribes, especially in these highly polarized times (recent votes in Congress have split down party lines, very unusual under our system)

The failure to end DADT last week was not the only LGBT issue that Obama and the Dems faced in this Congress or by this President. Most other issues had a positive resolution and will impact more in the LGBT community than DADT. Though the lion's share of the blame goes to the GOP, I readily concede that the Dem. leadership in the Senate made too many mistakes to walk away guilt free from DADT repeal's defeat.

Considering that the so called Tea Party now totally dominates the GOP, there is NO moderate wing left for any moderate to support (since you aren't an American I don't expect you to be familiar with the extent of this shift to the far right) Put aside that it was the GOP's fiscal policies from the Bush years that drove the world's economy into the deepest recession in decades, you can not find one single GOP office holder on the Federal level advocating for LGBT issues, and as long as the Tea Party controls the direction of the party it won't happen. In fact the GOP in several of the states are attempting to not just thwart any future progress but to RE criminalize homosexuality.

To be sure the Democrats have fumbled the ball repeatedly on LGBT (and other social) issues but at least they are moving the ball forward. Its appalling that any gay person could support the GOP in 2010 given that party's stated stances on issues important to the LGBT community....but no one ever accused the American voter of paying attention to their own best interests.

[marshlander]

Thanks for interpreting all this stuff and filling in some background.

[fredv3b]

Its an oversimplification to call the parties loose confederations of warring tribes, especially in these highly polarized times (recent votes in Congress have split down party lines, very unusual under our system)

While it is obviously an oversimplication, the fact that when it comes to votes there is an effective whipping system in the House and the Senate, does not prove the absence of a broad range of opinions on a broad range of topics within the Republican Party

The failure to end DADT last week was not the only LGBT issue that Obama and the Dems faced in this Congress or by this President. Most other issues had a positive resolution and will impact more in the LGBT community than DADT.

Please, name them.

Though the lion's share of the blame goes to the GOP, I readily concede that the Dem. leadership in the Senate made too many mistakes to walk away guilt free from DADT repeal's defeat.

It depends on your perspective, repeat of DADT had the support of Senators Collins and Snowe from Maine, however Senator Reid tried to bring it the the floor as part of the National Defence Authorisation Act whilst preventing debate of any amendments other than an express few. It would have come as no surprise whatsoever, to Sen. Reid, that no Republican could support bringing the Bill to the floor on those terms.

Considering that the so called Tea Party now totally dominates the GOP, there is NO moderate wing left for any moderate to support (since you aren't an American I don't expect you to be familiar with the extent of this shift to the far right)

I do try and follow American politics, but it is difficult to follow state level politics from this side of the Atlantic. However I would regard Tom Campbell, the defeated primary contestant for the Republican nomination for Senator Boxer's seat, as a moderate. Also the Republican nominee for Lieutenant Governor of Massachusetts, Richard Tisei, is openly gay. However I freely admit that California and Massachusetts, are hardly representative of the U.S. as a whole.

you can not find one single GOP office holder on the Federal level advocating for LGBT issues,

Sadly you are correct, however it would hardly be a novelty for politicians to say one thing and do another.

In fact the GOP in several of the states are attempting to not just thwart any future progress but to RE criminalize homosexuality.

I am aware of the Republican party platforms in Texas and Montana, but is there any evidence of actual effort or activity in that direction, not mere rhetoric?

To be sure the Democrats have fumbled the ball repeatedly on LGBT (and other social) issues but at least they are moving the ball forward.

Or at least claiming they intend to.

Its appalling that any gay person could support the GOP in 2010 given that party's stated stances on issues important to the LGBT community....but no one ever accused the American voter of paying attention to their own best interests.

I would totally agree with respect to supporting the Republican party as a generic whole. However I would certainly not agree that is is appauling for any gay person to support any Republican candidate for any office.

[Ryhunt86]

While it is obviously an oversimplication, the fact that when it comes to votes there is an effective whipping system in the House and the Senate, does not prove the absence of a broad range of opinions on a broad range of topics within the Republican Party

You're right, who knows what dwells in the hearts of a Republican, but as far as advancing any agenda that is supportive of any gay issue, well then the silence is deafening. The Congressional GOP is largely homogenous, but should you find a moderate still clinging on they are obliged to support their party's less tempered leadership and that leadership is targeting lgbt Americans. Its not a benign as you make it out.

Please, name them.

To name a few that come to mind;

Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes Act,
extending Hospital visitation rights to LGBT people
DOJ extending Title IX protections to LGBT people
Ryan White HIV/AIDS Treatment Extension Act
various Federal appointments and Executive orders directed towards LGBT

Now lets list GOP Proposals or achievements:
1.
2.
3.


I am not an apologist for the Democrats, they have fallen short of their promises to the lgbt community, but they also have made progress where the other party has fought against EVERY lgbt issue. Its the GOP that uses lgbt people as a wedge issue to inflame the far right base of their party. Its cynical, despicable and potentially dangerous given the forces they are trying to appeal to.

It depends on your perspective, repeat of DADT had the support of Senators Collins and Snowe from Maine, however Senator Reid tried to bring it the the floor as part of the National Defence Authorisation Act whilst preventing debate of any amendments other than an express few. It would have come as no surprise whatsoever, to Sen. Reid, that no Republican could support bringing the Bill to the floor on those terms.

I said in my last post that the Senate leadership shares in the guilt. But the lion's share of the blame still falls on the GOP. The amendments they offered covered everything but defense, including immigration amendments and invalidating DC's same sex marriage laws (oh yes, where was the famous moderate Susan Collins on this amendment?), and a whole shopping list of wedge issues, guaranteed to inflame the far right but more importantly to stall the bill as each amendment is debated until the clock ran out on the bill. To try to paint this as anything other than cynical move by the GOP is a gross misrepresentation or misunderstanding of what really happened.

I do try and follow American politics, but it is difficult to follow state level politics from this side of the Atlantic. However I would regard Tom Campbell, the defeated primary contestant for the Republican nomination for Senator Boxer's seat, as a moderate. Also the Republican nominee for Lieutenant Governor of Massachusetts, Richard Tisei, is openly gay. However I freely admit that California and Massachusetts, are hardly representative of the U.S. as a whole.

I don't deny that there are remnants of the Big Tent GOP still around, but moderates are treated like the GOP's crazy aunt in the attic, kept out of sight and never heard from. If you follow American politics you may have heard of RINOs, Republicans In Name Only, these RINOs are being hunted into extinction by the Tea Party GOP and ultra conservative forces (such as talk radio personalities Limbaugh and Beck). There is a wholesale cleansing of the party of leftist elements like Colin Powell, Megan McCain and Charlie Crist (people who until a year or two ago thought themselves loyal conservatives).

Sadly you are correct, however it would hardly be a novelty for politicians to say one thing and do another.

Well, until they actually do anything positive I'll stand by my statement that not one GOP member of Congress is standing up for LGBT issues. NOT ONE.

I am aware of the Republican party platforms in Texas and Montana, but is there any evidence of actual effort or activity in that direction, not mere rhetoric?

Mere rhetoric? Really? I wouldn't be so dismissive of mere rhetoric when it comes from a politcal party, especially when it is targeting citizens for prosecution for merely existing. It should speak volumes to any observer about the direction that party wants to head

Remember in the US all power comes from the states to the Federal, even more so when it comes to the GOP's agenda (States Rights is the GOP's mantra) Think it's just wacky provincial rhetoric that will go no where? Ask school children in Texas about Thomas Jefferson and Joe McCarthy and you'll learn the power of backwoods rhetoric.

Or at least claiming they intend to.

Its more than claims, any progress made on lgbt issues (or any civil rights issue) has come from the Democratic side of the aisle. This goes to every level of government in the US, local, state or Federal....its the Dem.s who are advocating for lgbt issues. The Republican record on these issues? Filibuster, obstruct, overturn, veto.....getting the picture? Its not hyperbole, its fact.

I would totally agree with respect to supporting the Republican party as a generic whole. However I would certainly not agree that is is appauling for any gay person to support any Republican candidate for any office.

Since 2010 is a Federal election year, I confined my comments to those races. Should someone find that rare GOP candidate that supports all lgbt issues running for a town council, or a state Railroad Commision then by all means support them, and take pictures of these rare birds 'cause they are marked for extinction by their own party!

[eastofeden]

Since 2010 is a Federal election year, I confined my comments to those races. Should someone find that rare GOP candidate that supports all lgbt issues running for a town council, or a state Railroad Commision then by all means support them, and take pictures of these rare birds 'cause they are marked for extinction by their own party!

Here in California Tea Party Carly (Fiorina) won the GOP nomination but one of her opponents was Tom Campbell who has openly supported gay marriage ...I would have voted for him had Barbara Boxer not been his opponent. Ms Boxer has been a very good friend to the gay community and deserves our support...any gay person who votes for Fiorina is insane...she wants to repeal Roe vs Wade:mad: and has nothing but comtempt for the gay people.

[fredv3b]

To name a few that come to mind;

Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes Act,
extending Hospital visitation rights to LGBT people
DOJ extending Title IX protections to LGBT people
Ryan White HIV/AIDS Treatment Extension Act
various Federal appointments and Executive orders directed towards LGBT

I don't regard making gay-bashing more illegal as advancing Gay rights. HIV treatment helps a minority of gay men and almost no lesbians. I grant you hospital visitation rights, although it was done by beaurocratic means not requiring political capital. Federal appointments are at best a means to an end. I would be interested to know more about this extension of Title IX.

To try to paint this as anything other than cynical move by the GOP is a gross misrepresentation or misunderstanding of what really happened.

I see little but cynical moves on both sides.

I don't deny that there are remnants of the Big Tent GOP still around, but moderates are treated like the GOP's crazy aunt in the attic, kept out of sight and never heard from. If you follow American politics you may have heard of RINOs, Republicans In Name Only, these RINOs are being hunted into extinction by the Tea Party GOP and ultra conservative forces (such as talk radio personalities Limbaugh and Beck). There is a wholesale cleansing of the party of leftist elements like Colin Powell, Megan McCain and Charlie Crist (people who until a year or two ago thought themselves loyal conservatives).

All the more reason to support them.

Mere rhetoric? Really? I wouldn't be so dismissive of mere rhetoric when it comes from a politcal party, especially when it is targeting citizens for prosecution for merely existing. It should speak volumes to any observer about the direction that party wants to head

In general I am believer in politics that the less you intend to do about something the more you need to talk about it.

P.S. Thank you for the debate, I do appreciate it.

[fredv3b]

any gay person who votes for Fiorina is insane...she wants to repeal Roe vs Wade:mad:

Why is Roe vs Wade of relevance to gay people?

[eastofeden]

Why is Roe vs Wade of relevance to gay people?

I am a feminist and I am gay but the larger picture is symbiotic...letting the government control what we do with our bodies or punish us based on what we do with our bodies. I think it is important to not ask for something you are not willing to give. I am neither for nor against abortion as it is not my body nor my decision but I am 100% pro choice.