Protest the Pope

[marshlander]

I've just come across this website, which may be of interest to some. Concordat Watch

You will be aware, of course, that the Vatican undermines many international human rights treaties by entering into secret "concordats" with individual countries instead. Often these agreements are incorporated into law in those countries.

Some pretty shocking examples. :mad:

[marshlander]

I saw most of these placards at last week's demonstration. Some people are very witty. See a selection of the signs here

I think my favourite is

Must admit I thought this one made a point too

[marshlander]

... and more articles for those who have the time to read them. If you live in Britain I recommend you do read them. The "Big Society" is coming!
The stirrings of secularists indicate trouble ahead for theocrats | National Secular Society

The Pope and Nazism | National Secular Society

Gwynne Dyer : Why Pope can't stand diversity and tolerance - Opinion - NZ Herald News

Time for a new thread, maybe ...

[Rychard the Lionheart]

Before we move on Marsh, What type of people were there? Were they all atheists as the Vatican would like us to believe, or Catholics unhappy with their church?

[marshlander]

Before we move on Marsh, What type of people were there? Were they all atheists as the Vatican would like us to believe, or Catholics unhappy with their church?

There wasn't time to interview 15,000 people, but my impression was very strongly of a "broad church". I think secularists were in the vast majority and probably there were more atheists than any particular religions, but by no means were all participants unaffiliated to any organised church. There were some Catholics who for a variety of reasons were at odds with the Pope, but bear in mind Benedict was also having his own party round the corner at the same time.

[Rychard the Lionheart]

Do you think the protest achieved its aims? Will it be forgotten in a few weeks and then back to Status Quo (not the band).

[marshlander]

It did not achieve its aims except as a very significant register of discontent. Terry Sanderson's article in the link above expresses my feelings about this ...

there is no doubt that the Protest the Pope march was seriously significant. It isn’t easy to stir religious — or anti-religious — passions in this country, but the visit of this pope and the manipulative way it has been foisted on the nation has brought the first large-scale demonstration of secular intent for maybe a hundred years on to the streets of Britain.

However I believe newer benefits have emerged and I, personally, did not consider this before the event. The demonstration has been shown around the world (although heavily under-reported here in the UK I think) and the sky hasn't fallen in. I hope it will give some support to free-thinkers everywhere that it is okay to disagree with the Vatican and maybe begin to push for societies that are essentially more realistic and caring. But then I'm just an old hippy. What do I know

I think this is one of those moments when at the same time nothing, and yet everything, may have changed. Although the status quo is very powerful I don't think there will be any going back from here for many people.

[marshlander]

I've been wondering. The government sold us this fiasco as a "state visit"; that's why we are paying for it. Does anyone know of any significant trade agreements that have been negotiated by the accompanying entourage to benefit UK industries?

[Rychard the Lionheart]

Does the Vatican deal in unfair practices, its seems to only to employ secruity staff who are Catholic and Swiss. Don't they trust anybody else. Also do any Jew, Muslin and a member of the Church of England work or hold any senior management position in the vatican?

[marshlander]

Since the Vatican does not sign international treaties and the "state" is composed of Catholic (mainly, I assume) men, of whom only about 500-600 have Vatican citizenship (which is granted for only as long as they are in office) it seems unlikely. Although they have "diplomatic relations" with most countries in the world, there is not enough space within the Vatican state to house embassies (apparently) so all diplomats are housed in Rome. About 3, 000 people work in the city, but the vast majority leave to go back to a real country at the end of each day.