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Not to me Esruc - are you using language that may be risky?
I do not know what to suggest.

I don't know...maybe it was the length of the message?

From what I see you are only asking people to open their mind to accept a new idea. However the idea is quite controversial. Why would THAT get censored?

rsconceptions Wrote:Deep down inside, hopefully, a pedophile would know that what they are doing is wrong. The next question is, do they care enough to control themselves?

I am not convinced this is not conditioning...something that can be overcome but that is a huge difference for me because I was completely convinced prior to this it was all a choice. I base this on a few people I have met over the years and some of the things they told me which I can expand on later if I feel it will add something to the discussion.

I do have an ulterior motive here though...I have watched my lover deal with his abuse for years now and I dealt with my own and I believe with all my heart that forgiveness is the final step...but not an "image" of forgiveness...it isn't neat and tidy...

Forgiveness in my mind means understanding and unless you have some degree of understanding you cannot truly have forgiveness. I think forgiveness is the final piece of the puzzle in overcoming most things and so I am curious about this because I would love to help my lover overcome his abuse and if he could understand what made his father and uncle do these things maybe he could begin the process. BTW...the forgiveness is not for them really...it is for him.

Esruc Wrote:Probable. It was quite long, I just hope it gets approved so I don't have to re-type everything.

I hope so too...I would really like to hear what you have to say.

Esruc Wrote:Pedophiles are sick individuals. What's the point in being a pedophile anyway?

You make it sound like being a pedophile is a choice. It is no more a choice than being gay, or straight.

I know it's not a choice. It's really a shame that they are like that.

I glade I see a lot of great discussion on this on is post, sorry for not benign in the conversation. I kind of posted and dashed because I got called into work on the night shift and have been there for the like past 2 days, 3:40am and I just got home. I’m very sleepy right now but I’m planning on posts something whenever I wake tomorrow, again great stuff gays. ( quick edit a totally meant to say Great Stuff Guys lol)

What an interesting discussion. I have to admit there are aspects of what has been discussed that make me feel extremely uncomfortable. I am strongly opposed to these cross-generational sexual encounters, but I don't think the way forward is at all clear cut, unless society (as indeed it has) makes a decision on how to view sexual activity between adults and children.

At times I have struggled to make sense of the arguments that condemn adult-child sex, while claiming that I should have the right to love another man and/or be able to engage in sex with him, which is also so clearly against the majority view. Many of the points I have arrived at have already been mentioned. I am an adult, fully capable of making decisions for myself and willing to recognise consequences for my actions. I have chosen to allow my sexual drive full expression in the choice of partner. I am relieved that I have never found myself driven to be with anyone under the age of consent. My partners have always been adults who are also willing to engage in sex with me. I can only think it must be hell on earth for adults to find themselves driven to seek children for sex. No wonder some of them seek to justify their desires by attempting to normalise their activities. How could they live with themselves otherwise?

Rightly or wrongly I believe there are a whole mix of factors that go to making us who we are. I am relieved that genetic and biological factors are increasingly coming into the picture that help me come to terms with who I am as a gay man. I understand that not everyone needs this kind of affirmation. You will appreciate that not everyone has had my experience of growing up either Wink

I have no background in clinical psychology, but children are undeniably sexual beings. Freud acknowledged this and my childhood and adolescence were lightly peppered with examples of sexual interest and play. Two examples stand out in my memory as particularly strange and confusing, but were also titillating at the time too. When I was about eight I was in the house of the boy next door who was a few years older than me. I was in the kitchen and he re-entered stark naked, sporting an erection and calling me his master! He claimed to be my slave and requested I set him tasks. I had no idea how to deal with this. By the age of thirteen I had discovered what erections were for, but I was completely unprepared for being set upon in a very sexual way by an eight year old and her six year old sister who had come to Sunday lunch with their family (their father who was downstairs was the local Mormon bishop at the time as it happens!). I have no idea what drove that behaviour! I also noticed examples of sexual curiosity and wonder in my own family from when they were very small indeed. As a parent and responsible adult I felt my role was not to condemn them in their innocence, but to guide them away from what seemed to be inappropriate behaviour. For me it fell into the same category of parental guidance as teaching them to be safe when dealing with climbing the stairs before they could walk, crossing the street or playing with matches. As they got older I could give them more information. Sometimes I got the balance between too much and too little information right and sometimes I misjudged it. Parents make mistakes and all we can hope is that it turns out okay in the end. I often pondered that I found it more difficult to discuss sexual matters with them than other issues relevant to their safety. As it happens they all seem to have become adults without apparently coming to harm. Of course parents never know for sure what their kids are up to, but they seem to be more or less okay or are dealing with issues that are explainable otherwise.

Again I have no knowledge, but I would be surprised if there were found to be a biological or genetic imperative towards adult/child sexual desire. I can see there are arguments for such desires being the products of life experience. I know I am also on unsafe ground here because it is not so long ago that the prevailing thought favoured nurture as the sole reason for homosexual desire. However, as an adult operating within society, I believe that we share a common responsibility of care towards our young.

My response to any act of harm to children is characteristically one of great anger. My personal preference is for keeping children as safe as possible for as long as possible against what might be seen as adult concerns. I cannot do anything but condemn in the strongest possible terms any act of sexual predation on children. I hope it is possible to guide adults away from sexual interest in children, but the evidence suggests that once these patterns are formed rehabilitation takes years. Many people, sadly, never find that release from whatever drives them.

As to whether a formal association should be allowed or not, I would rather see discussion out in the open and that we all have an opportunity to begin to discuss the issues and work out ways of refuting any arguments that attempt to justify abusing children.

eastofeden Wrote:You make it sound like being a pedophile is a choice. It is no more a choice than being gay, or straight.

I will admit my first reaction was to jump and bite but I really have no insight into this at all so I would rather listen...I have never heard anyone say this before so I am curious...why is this not a choice?

...and what exactly is the difference between a pedophile and a child molestor? I am not really sure but I am guessing from what you said one acts on it and the other doesn't? If I am wrong I would be curious to know the difference.

Pedophile is listed as a mental disorder (while gay is not).
And as a disorder it 's not a choice.

I personally feel sorry for a pedophile rather than holding hatred against him.

conechvn Wrote:Pedophile is listed as a mental disorder (while gay is not).
And as a disorder it 's not a choice.

I personally feel sorry for a pedophile rather than holding hatred against him.

Well...Hannibal Lector has a mental disorder as well and I am far more inclined to feel sympathy for his victims...same with the pedophile..but then again if I can bring myself to a different understanding of the pedophile I may be able to overcome my hatred. The hatred is extremely personal...a pedophile has impacted my life personally from the day I was born...my mother was molested for years and as a result she was really f*cked up and myself amd all my brothers paid a high price for it. Also as I mentioned earlier...watching my lover work through it for years has been very painful but if there is a chance for understanding and forgiveness perhaps that door can close and there can be a greater understanding which could beneift everyone.

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