Can I honestly call myself a Christian

[dolphinash93]

I was baptized a Catholic, but I can feel myself growing distant from that church because of their views of gays and all the homophobes. I think that, although I myself am not gay, a gay couple have a complete right to be married. I also know that I believe in Jesus Christ and God and Satan and Heaven and Hell and all those other things that go along with Christianity, but apparently, according to my strict Catholic friend, being pro-gay and pro-choice makes me unqualified to be a Catholic…I'm really confused over this and everywhere I seek advice I get all this "you think god's word is less important that yours" BS instead of actual answers... What do you guys think?

[jbrowder24]

The Catholic church officially has strong views, but I know a LOT of Catholics who used birth control and that's also a no-no, so unofficially you can be Catholic and gay ... there are gay Catholics out there... but finding a church that accepts gays may be difficult. However, there are many more protestant churches that are open - some have even been allowing gay ministers - and it's definitely possible to be Christian and gay, or pro-choice and gay. There are so many passages that don't apply - I recently posted a short film I saw on youtube in the religion forum here, called 'Gabby's Bus' - check it out or search that phrase on youtube, then send it to your friend. I've posted this link before but you may have missed this, also check out this site: http://www.soulforce.org/resources/what-...sexuality/

Anyway, some people believe they know what God's word is and use it to support their own agenda, but as that film shows, and as was also pointed out in a great scene from West Wing, there are many things we ignore. So what makes THEIR word more important than Jesus' words? The Gospel especially has great messages about not judging, about loving others as we want to be loved, etc. Unfortunately the religious right has made this and abortion their 'wars' to fight and conveniently forget what was actually said by Jesus.

But yes someone can be gay and Christian and ultimately faith is a personal journey. I see you are still pretty young but I think it will also get easier as you get a bit older in finding friends and churches that fit closer to your beliefs. I myself am agnostic at this point in my life, but if you believe then good for you, just keep Jesus' messages in your heart rather than let the un-Christian-like judgment and hatred of certain religious types get in.

Also, despite what politicians are saying, more and more polls are showing a growing acceptance of gays, even among Christians. One of the big hang-ups for some Christians is use of the word 'marriage' (which I disagree with) but over half of Christians polled now support the repeal of DOMA. So slowly but surely things are getting better and that's largely thanks to younger people like you who are accepting and open-minded, so thank you *hugs*

[XRIMO]

This is the thing with religion, its not consistent for everyone and there are those who will be completely accepting and believe in loving everyone, and there are those who will believe that anything not 'natural' should be condemned. The bible was written in a different time than we now live and not all the things it says can pertain to things nowadays. Ask the gay bashers if they eat shellfish or wear mixed fabrics, which are also abominations and ask why those are not enforced the same way.

Believe in the views you deem to be true because the answers are yours, and no one can tell you what will make you Christian. Its a case of 'to each their own'.

[OrphanPip]

We had a priest here in Quebec who openly supported gay rights and abortion, but the church clamped down on him and told him to shut it. It's about how you feel towards your church ultimately and what you're willing to support. I'm an atheist so I have no affiliations to any churches. You could consider joining a more liberal church.

[fredv3b]

Ultimately, the Pope gets to define who is or is not a Catholic, however in the absence of intervention from the almighty no-one gets to define who is or is not a Christian.

[azulai]

Hi and welcome. mile:

I really hesitated answering your thread but the pull was just too great. I apologize ahead of time and say up front that I'm a non-Christian here to give you my 2 cents. I also apologize for my tone, I tried to edit it, I really did. I hope I don't offend you in any way. It's just I have a real problem with organized religions that claim to promote peace but instead make war.

First, those rules and laws that Xans love to run their mouths about to condemn homosexuality are part of Josiah's Holiness Code. And, they are taking them out of context. King Josiah was instilling religious reform. Jews were constantly battling the influence of Canaanite influences on their culture. The Assyrian fertility practices had made their way into Judaism. He wanted the Assyrian Temple prostitutes banned from the Jewish Temple (they actually had a special room, see 11 Kings 23:7). Men would go and masturbate in front of a statue of Baal or make a “deposit” into the male or female priests/priestesses of Ishtar (or Asharah). It's no coincidence that the Assyrian word for “holy one” is qadesh yet in ancient Hebrew the words qadesh (m.)/qdeshahu (f.) mean male/female temple prostitute/whore. So, yeah, the laws have nothing to do with homosexuality, but with temple prostitution. Why was this such a big deal? At that time, sex was needed to produce Hebrews; that small tribe needed to grow.

Also, the Hebrew words to’ebhah or to’ebah mean unholy, ritually unclean, not abomination. They are always used in the Tanakh, the Jewish Bible, to refer to IDOLATRY never morals. So, in context, they are being used to condemn idolatry, not a particular sex act. If Jews were referring to morals violation/something deemed sinful, they would use the word, zimah. So, abomination is an incorrect translation in the King James and various Xan Bibles. But, it sounds better.

Secondly, I respect that you have your faith, but Catholicism/Christianity as you experience in Church is very far removed from the teachings of the man, Jesus. It's based more on the writings of Paul and early Church theologians and all the resulting dogma as they tried to take a Jewish guy and turn him into a universal “savior.” Paul was a self-loathing Hellenistic Jew who invented “Christ.” The book, Acts of the Apostles, is full of the first political struggles within your Church.

Jesus was a Jew and he wasn't a particularly good one. He really got on the nerves of the Pharisees because he was a kind of hippie/rebel. He was preaching love, Confucius's Golden Rule and not following the rules/traditions. Things like not keeping the Sabbath free from work/harvesting, encouraging people to pray in secret rather than in groups of 10 men and ignoring ritual hand washing before meals were some of the causes of the arguments he had with the Pharisees because he wasn't respecting the traditions. Tradition is a very big deal in Judaism. But, to some of the people of his day, he was charismatic and enticing. Encouraging people to have a personal relationship with God was pretty radical. You have a religion where the sacred name cannot be uttered, and this man is saying call God, Daddy. lol.

If you read your book, and really want to focus on the few things that scholars believe are attributable to the historical Jesus, then study the Lord's Prayer, the Sermon on the Mount, the parables and things like that. I think those are at the heart of the message of the itinerant preacher, Jesus.

I personally don't think Jesus was trying to start any new religion. He probably went into the desert (maybe smoked something funny :tongue: ) and had “a moment” of enlightenment where he wanted to get people to stop focusing so much on the letter of the law but instead, the heart of it. I don't think he was a bad guy, but I don't think he was in any way divine. I think he was wondering where God was in his religion, maybe all he saw were rules. He was just calling the Pharisees out. He was trying to make them use their hearts, instead of blindly following things the way they always were.

Think about the parable of the Good Samaritan. The Pharisee leaves the guy for dead so that he doesn't break the rule and become unclean. When laws and rules take precedent over the value of someone's life, something is wrong. Sound familiar???

So, what are you doing? Well, I think you are following in the tradition of this person you admire: Jesus. You are questioning laws and rules that don't make sense to you. What's wrong with using your head? What's wrong with using your heart? Maybe you are outgrowing your childhood religion and growing into something more meaningful. Maybe some gay guy or lesbian overheard you voicing your support and they felt a little stronger that day.

Thanks for being an ally. I sincerely appreciate it. I really want to get married one day.

[azulai]

A couple articles you might want to share with your Catholic friends and maybe start a discussion.

This is from 2009, but it kind of speaks volumes still:
Brazil rocked by abortion for 9-year-old rape victim: Church excommunicates mother and doctors – but not accused rapist

This is a recent Neuroscience article on homosexuality from Medical News Today:
Homo Or Hetero? The Neurobiological Dimension Of Sexual Orientation

[SlipknotRlZZ]

Whatever religion our parents have chosen for us to follow and the ritual they have followed in order to tie us to that religion is just the basic foundation for what our future beliefs are going to develop into. It's like each one of us builds and adds on to their own religion which could be one based strictly on materialism, or a mix of many religions, it could be going against them too - Satanism, for example. So it doesn't really matter what the strict canon of the religion you 'should' be following says because you choose what to believe in and no church should be hostile towards you if you have chosen to introduce some changes to what you have initially been told to believe in.

[sweetlad2010]

religion is two words and thats me being nice lol!

I got family who are born agains, enough said!!!

[Cain]

well i am not christian but i believe a deity that created the world and us. And i belive i can explain the reason why i am gay to him if he ever brings the subject up. :tongue: