I'm burned ...

[italianandme]

princealbertofb: you're right about what you said mile: ... i guess i could manage to have drinks with him "only if he asks" ... do you think it sounds right if i say "yes" right from the first time? I'm a bit intimidated to ask him if he has a girlfriend to be honest but I'm willing to .. i guess i have to find a way to ask him in a conversation. Example, we're talking about something then I ask "what your girlfriend thinks of that?" ... what do you think :redface:

if he asks the same question, i would say "no" without going into details ... that would be my reply most likely ..

[HemDawg]

if he asks the same question, i would say "no" without going into details ... that would be my reply most likely

Cant really expect him to give you an answer that you can read something into if you wont do the same for him. If you get asked, and dont want to be too explicit, what about something like "Oh, I dont really do the girlfriend thing".

I'm inclined to agree with princealbert about getting a drink sometime, but it probably isn't something that you should ask... if you're at work and you ask someone out for a drink, thats a bit inappropriate. I think you just need to create a gap in conversation where it would be appropriate for him to ask you out for a drink. Not the easiest, but worth a go.

Looking forward to hearing the latest news though!

[Paul1]

I agree with Wintereis, the language barrier is there. That's a GOOD thing. Being American is sexy. Questions therefore can bend the rules, because American and European conversational cues are quite different. If he's not gay, he'll probably shrug it of as American weirdness.

Maybe swap the word, "girlfriend" for "partner". Otherwise, if he's gay, he might think you're straight and if you use the word "partner" it's an nice gentle way to show that you assume he might not be straight, making it easier for him to come forward.

You can ask questions that have a double meaning that involve dubious words. Prepare before hand because it's difficult to be creative in the moment. Be a little inappropriate (but not too much), you want to break down the barriers a little to see if he'll respond. I admit I'm not that good at it myself, perhaps people here have some suggestions. I usually try three times, if there's no response I consider it a No, otherwise it's all good.

Remember that Italian culture is very romantic and friendly. However also very catholic. When I visited Rome, there wasn't any real gay scene, the gay bars where in dark dodgy back allies, whose doors you had to knock on (Me and my friends gave up at that point). So I think Italian gays are cautious. Maybe I'm wrong, that's the impression I got from the hostel manager who was most definitely gay, when flirting with him.

I agree with princealbertofb, the best way, IMO, is to get into a deep conversation about something unimportant - any subject you both like to talk about. And then "have to leave" before you can finish the convo. Then say "I'd really like to finish our interesting convo, what are you up to after work?" It's innocent, and not inappropriate IMO, he has the option of saying yes or no. I don't agree with people who say he has to do it. You could both be waiting for each other to say it. How else are you meant to make friends with him than to ask if he wants to hang out?! Take control of the situation, which will help you feel at ease, whilst at the same time, don't stifle his sense of control.

If your feeling anxious, consider two things:
1. This guy isn't going to be around forever. Most acquaintances in our life are temporary, and we loose contact with them eventually. If you want to keep someone as a friend, take a risk and put forward an olive branch. If he doesn't accept, don't be dismayed, try once more a little while after. If it's an absolute no, then don't feel frustrated, feel good for trying, because if you hadn't tried, he would have only disappeared anyway.

2. What's the worst that can happen? If he's mad enough to take offence to a friendly offering, oh well, what a weirdo, you've lost nothing. He wasn't going to be around forever anyway. It's extremely unlikely he'll react like that, but that isn't even that bad anyway.

[princealbertofb]

We are talking about an international pilot here, and I'm sure he is quite aware of the cultural differences at stake. Being a pilot he probably is and feels lonely quite a lot of the time, since it's not a job that is really conducive to long standing affairs (at least, that's what I think). You didn't tell us how old this man is. Is he likely to have a wife and children already?
I got the impression Italianandme was not American originally, so I don't know if he can pull off the American weirdness that Paul1 was mentioning... lol. But I'd say that there is nothing wrong in initiating the going for a drink invitation, if the two of you feel already so comfortable in a conversation. It's what comes next naturally, I believe.

[italianandme]

@gilhooly: “Sounds great. Is there any way the relationship could affect your job? Any financial considerations?”
Not really .. I don’t think he would ask me to live in Italy .. although I wish I could

@HemDawg: “Cant really expect him to give you an answer that you can read something into if you wont do the same for him”
Exactly! And that’s why I’m confused.. I don’t feel comfortable saying “Hey, I go both ways” I’d be embarrassed and the reception area is not quite the right place to talk about it when you have some of your colleagues on the same shift and you’re surrounded by clients here and there ...

“I'm inclined to agree with princealbert about getting a drink sometime, but it probably isn't something that you should ask... if you're at work and you ask someone out for a drink, thats a bit inappropriate. I think you just need to create a gap in conversation where it would be appropriate for him to ask you out for a drink. Not the easiest, but worth a go.”
Yeah .. I wish I can .. I’ll see how things will go ...

@Paul1: “I agree with Wintereis, the language barrier is there. That's a GOOD thing”
Can you explain more about this please..

“Maybe swap the word, "girlfriend" for "partner”
It’s a great phrasing that I never thought of, for sure I will mention this ...

“You can ask questions that have a double meaning that involve dubious words. Prepare before hand because it's difficult to be creative in the moment. Be a little inappropriate (but not too much), you want to break down the barriers a little to see if he'll respond. I admit I'm not that good at it myself, perhaps people here have some suggestions. I usually try three times, if there's no response I consider it a No, otherwise it's all good.”
That’s what I badly want to know ... how to ask these questions that would allow me to discover him more?

“So I think Italian gays are cautious”
That’s what I assume. He seems so into me you know from the eyes and all of that but again I could be wrong. I guess the Italian culture is considered macho so it’s hard for someone to come out.

“I agree with princealbertofb, the best way, IMO, is to get into a deep conversation about something unimportant - any subject you both like to talk about”

LOL:biggrin: .. that’s what we did the last time I saw him .. we talked about everything that’s not important LOL .. repeating some subjects that we already talked about but it looked like we were talking something new.

I agree with you Paul1 .. your advices are valuable.

@princealbertofb: “You didn't tell us how old this man is. Is he likely to have a wife and children already?”
Ok! First, he’s very handsome .. tall with a short haircut and amazing eyes. He’s 25 years old and already a pilot .. so yeah I guess he can easily have a girlfriend ..
I remembered something ... on our third catch up, while we were talking a very sexy lady passed by walking outside, she waved at him and said “Hey, see you!”. He waved at her but not passionately. This is what happened:
I said, “Wow, who was that?” I was excited, because she’s sexy. :biggrin:
He said “She was in the bar, she’s half polish half Swedish (something like that)” He was waving his hands while he was saying that in a way like saying whatever but not exactly. I hope you got what I mean. He didn’t even sound interested in talking about her because we were at that time very comfortable talking with each other. Even the first time when we were talking about this famous model the first time we met, he gave this fake excited “yeah” with that wide grin, you know when someone is faking something with or without being gay.. I can feel it.
“I got the impression Italianandme was not American originally, so I don't know if he can pull off the American weirdness that Paul1 was mentioning”
Yes, I’m not American, but willing to be now if that’s what it takes to be sexy ... I’m also trying to fix my date of birth here .. it’s showing I’m 31 ... guess I was in a hurry to post here but for the record I’m 24, got to up-date my profile now ..

What's the american weirdness? :confused:

[Paul1]

haha, language barriers allow you to make more "mistakes" and say naughty things because the other person will be more unsure. I really can't tell you what to say, you have to be naughty and flirty. Either use words that have a hidden sexual innuendo (e.g. cockpit) or say sentences that seem flirty but can also be innocent.

But maybe I'm wrong. It's easy to take whatever people say and read too much into it. I don't think I've had any direct success by using innuendo unless the guy already liked me in the first place.

You can joke with him, for example, "So do you wear this uniform at home? *grin* " If he's gay he might think you're flirting. If he's straight he'll probably think it's the language barrier and assume you mean for pleasing girls. That might work unless he knows you are gay in the first place. Clearly just making these kind of comments isn't going to let him know you like him, and sooner or later, if you like each other someone is going to have to break the ice.

American humour is very different to European humour. So you can be flirty and then put it down to American humour or wherever you come from. It's of course complete rubbish, but seldom do people question it.