Historial Gay "Scene"

[michaelson]

Does anyone know what the gay "scene" was like back in history? What did gays do back in the early 1900s etc. Were there gay clubs? Did people have long term relationships? Was there gay porn?

[Inchante]

Well the "gay scene" hasn't changed all that much over the years in principal. It is more open now and we have the internet, but there were "gay pubs" so to speak (bars/pubs where the owners turned a blind eye to their customers doings). Public bath houses were a common place to meet other men for a tryst (this carried over from the classical period and was not unusual even in the late 20th century-"Y.M.C.A."), cruising certain parks and streets at certain hours was definitely an element of "gay life". These are more in fitting with Europe and larger cities in the United States, however. Even more particularly to Europe was the existence of "gay" master servant relationships which had been common since the classical era through the early twentieth century. Conversely, more frequently in the United States, the "gay relationships of convenience" held by pioneers, frontiersmen, cowboys and sailors (Europe too with sailors-"Go West", "In the Navy") Pirates and buccaneers had matelots which were like same sex unions with certain legal benefits among their subcultures, these could have a sexual component.

There were long term relationships as well and "gay porn" so to speak, but it was more often written than in image form and even those were exceedingly rare due to the cost of publishing at the time.

Hope that has helped. You might find "Homosexuality and Civilization" published by Harvard University Press an interesting book to read. It does a general survey of Homosexuality from its earliest known examples through until the twentieth century. It also does several cross cultural examples-middle east, the orient, pre-colombian Americas, etc.

[DarkDaisuke]

Well I know that back in the 40s I believe thats as early to the 60s they had like bars and all that where you went but anything earlier than that I have no idea :/

[OrphanPip]

In the early 1900s if you were lucky enough to be rich you would usually circulate in private discreet clubs and most of your sexual relations would have been with prostitutes. There are documented cases of people who had long lasting relationships though.

You can get a picture of the kind of world in contemporary pornography like the late Victorian novel Teleny.

Oscar Wilde was famous for frequenting rent boys, but he also had a somewhat shortlived relationship with Lord Alfred Douglas. Some other gays from the period, like Marcel Proust lived relatively isolated and lonely lives. Others, like Paul Verlaine and Artur Rimbaud had tumultuous violent affairs (their relationship ended when Verlaine shot Rimbaud in Belgium). Verlaine, who was bisexual, also had a more stable relationship later on with another man, who eventually died of typhoid or something.

Gay subcultures have popped in and out of existence in Europe in history, but we tend only to have documentation of the kinds of lives the rich lived, since they had a certain ability to live above the law.

[SkullTshirt]

Well the gay scene was certainly poppin' in ancient greece. It was like a fire island on labor day weekend!
To my knowledge, homosexuality didn't become widely oppressed in the US until the pilgrims came over and brought their religion with them. Native americans often enjoyed and embraced homosexuality. In ancient greece it was believed to be the purest form of love, that closest to the gods.

[Cardiganwearer]

Back when I was a student one of the gay pubs in town was known to have been a gay bar since before the second world war. Many its habitués were of the same vintage so we rarely went in there. Many of the older people I knew used to reminisce about the good old days when it was illegal and some of their friends were in prison. I suspect that where danger is inextricably linked with something as fundamental as one's sexuality, that in itself can become attractive.

From a british perspective a good book is http://www.amazon.com/Out-Past-Lesbian-H...0679749888 which goes back to the nineteenth century. There is another book which I can't remember at the moment that goes back further covering gay themes in monastic life in medieaval times (yes, the clues are there!) and the molly houses of the eighteenth century.

In modern fiction Anthony Burgess's Earthly Powers covers the story of a gay man through the twentieth century with some good accounts of gay life between the wars. The Swimming Pool Library by Alan Hollinghurst has something on gay life in fifties Britain. It's thesis is comprehensively refuted in a book called The Heterosexual Conspiracy by Patrick Higgins, which I think is currently out of print.

I realise you weren't looking for a reading list but what you ask about is well documented in factual and fictional writing; we've always been here and we've always been visible.

[OrphanPip]

In ancient greece it was believed to be the purest form of love, that closest to the gods.

Depended on the period and which Greek states. Some of them certainly tolerated it, others encourage pederasty at some times. On the other hand, we have examples in plays by Aristophanes that make gay jokes and mock gay men as effeminate.

The pre-Christian Romans actually seemed to tolerate it more at a social level, one of Virgil's eclogues involves a male shepherd trying to seduce another boy. Ovid's metamorphoses emphasizes the sexual aspects of the Ganymede myth. A few of the Roman/Hispanian poet Martial's epigrams describe gay sex.

We also have examples of gay written pornography from China and India. There have been moments pretty much everywhere on Earth where cultures have tolerated open homosexuality.