Great arguments to use against Bible Thumpers!

[GeezUS]

People will interpret their holy scriptures however they want, and find others who agree with them.
That's why there are so many denominations of....any religion.
So the likeliness of swaying someone's views is pretty hard when they have so many people who agree with them, which reinforces there views, which make them spend more time around said people.
It's one of those circular self perpetuating systems, Something the religious tend to have a lot of.(I'm not saying it's purely a religious phenomenon though.)

It's best just to remember the bible is the ONLY evidence they have that there religion is true, and while it IS good being able to prove them wrong with there own holy book(which i guess would be more likely to make someone DOUBT their religion), it's better to simply remember that there's no evidence the bibles remotely divinely inspired...or even correct on many things.

Unfortunately, with blind faith, and the willingness to follow a religion out of it "feeling right", it's nigh impossible to convince someone that their religion is false without the person doubting their faith beforehand.

...
Hope that all makes sense.:redface:

Can't say I disagree with much of that, if at all. Though my interest was not simply fighting the thumpers themselves so much as those held back by their own religious beliefs that might otherwise need the freedoms of being open about their orientation.

[GeezUS]

I often use the soulforce link as well, but I try to be sensitive to those that believe and say that while I think there are some great lessons to be learned, that some of it no longer applies (this is what drives me crazy with a lot of anti-gay usage from the same section talking about shellfish, mixed fabrics, pigskin, etc) or was perhaps not meant to be taken literally - like Adam and Eve. I remember reading in the book Ishmael that Adam meant man and Eve meant life, and if that's true, then that story is really about humankind being tempted by life to gain wisdom. And yet Creationism is being taught in some schools now?

I tend to think it is more about man being tempted by knowledge that leads one to self harm, in thinking they know it all, or that things can actually be absolutely certain. But then eve doesn't mean life, i believe the Hebrew translates to life bringer or giver, slightly different. And the Hebrew word for man as translated Atom and "man' in the bible is the same as our word "man' it can mean humankind or specifically a male.

It's amazing the similarities between some stories in the Bible and other religions. As taken from wiki's page for 'flood myth', for example: "A flood myth or deluge myth is a mythical or religious story of a great flood sent by a deity or deities to destroy civilization as an act of divine retribution. It is a theme widespread among many cultures, though it is perhaps best known in modern times through the biblical and Quranic account of Noah's Ark, the Hindu puranic story of Manu, through Deucalion in Greek mythology or Utnapishtim in the Epic of Gilgamesh." How do people then think one version must be the absolute right one? It was a common myth and it's far from the only myth in the Bible.

Yes I tend to think that it happened, and like anything else it was probably influenced by God, the spiritual at the least, but that it is probable that it was accounted for by many. I find that the recurrence of things in multiple religions shows a universal spiritual influence.

[GeezUS]

For me this is actually good considering that i live in a very religious country, i need something to defend myself from religious people who thinks being gay is sinful. And yes i am a Christian and i do believe in God, but i believe that He does not have any problems with gay people and that he made us that way.

That's what I was hoping for. That I might help at least one person. I am glad to think you might have found some value in what I said. Just be careful about using the "facetious" arguments.

[GeezUS]

IMO...there is never going to be a right or wrong with this subject. as their will never be a 100% agreement, so i stay out of these conversations lol

I don't believe in 100%...it's a hypothetical mathematical concept.

That is to say outside of controled systems it is unreal. One can say 100% of the voters did such and such but beyond that I find that: It is most likely that nothing can be 100% certain.

[Paul1]

Unfortunately that often makes the problem worse for others as it leads to negative associations.

So basically saying what I suggested would make... absolutely no difference to how these religious bigots currently think. And no, I'm not going to entertain their diatribe with a serious conversation. Do black people justify their skin colour? Do left handed people justify their handedness? No and no, then why the fuck should I justify my sexuality.

[fenris]

Fenris you remind me of Yoda from Star Wars ( I freaking love Star Wars :biggrin: )

oh and I love the wolf picture!!

Thanks ... but I hope because of the content and not just because of poor language skills :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

[Gabbyboy]

That's what I was hoping for. That I might help at least one person. I am glad to think you might have found some value in what I said. Just be careful about using the "facetious" arguments.

yeah i have one very religious uncle and i know he will do a bible lecture on me when he finds out im gay. and i need good throw backs on his face.. mile:

[Merging]

Thanks ... but I hope because of the content and not just because of poor language skills :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Hey Yoda doesn't speak proper either but then again in this world what is really porper anymore

[Eromir]

I don't think such arguments can help to improve the acceptance of homosexuals among Christians.

If some Christians believe that being gay is wrong, it's not because of the Bible. It's because of the belief system that has been developing long before and long after the book was written. The Bible is a symbol FOR, not the source OF a set of moral values.

By quoting random passages from the Bible you can prove pretty much anything.
For example - alcoholism is a virtue. Jesus turned water into wine at the wedding, so wine must be preferable to water. Wine is alcoholic... so drinking must be good!
No one would actually yield to such and argument, because it's absurd and in disagreement with generally accepted moral values. Much of what is said in the Bible is ignored for similar reasons.

Such arguing breaks down into a play of words, but that is not philosophy.

[posterpicture]

The only argument that I used every time a Christian bro or sissy tries to thump me is "f*ck off, I don't really read fictional book"