Individuality or Group Identity?

[East]

I have been grappling with this issue for so many years now and I really hate the hypocrisy I am feeling so I am wondering how/when/if any of you ever have to deal with this and how do you go about it?

I think the best groups are comprised of dynamic diverse individuals in the best circumstances but that is a tad Utopian....

I really like and value my individuality and this is where my conflict begins in relation to me being gay and how much of my own thoughts and feelings do I dismiss to adhere to what I define as the greater good of gay people in general?

The hypocrisy....I am bothered when I know that sometimes white people who strongly identify with their race wont' vote for anyone else except for a white person just because they are white...and I am bothered when people of color voting for people or color just BECAUSE they are people of color first...

I am also bothered when I see someone dismiss their own feelings and not speak up when they know something is wrong out of solidarity to race especially,,,making excuses for bad behaviour...ect ect. ....and I know what bothers me on the outside is usually a reflection of something that is bothering me on the inside and this is an excellent example of that dynamic..

I find myself silently disagreeing with alot of things "gay spokesmen" say or gay groups say but defending them fiercely and completely despite everything...ignoring my own feelings in order to support other gay people. This is the same behavior that bothers me so much in other people and groups and THAT is hypocritical.....

...so I want to ask other gay people if you think putting the welfare of a group is more important than being true to yourself as an individual?

I am not sure but I think I would be OK knowing I am putting the welfare of the group above my own need to be true to myself but I at least want to be honest about it and in turn stop pretending to have phony outrage when I see other people doing the same thing...

On a side note..I do believe in free speech and I support the ACLU even though I disagree with and even hate some of the things they defend so maybe it isnt' as hypocritical as I think...

Thoughts?

[marshlander]

Having usually been on the periphery of more than one group I find it hard to accept an orthodoxy from any of them. Maybe I'm just too selfish, but if something strikes me as being unfair I may get involved.

[jbrowder24]

I think it depends... perhaps some examples will help?

I'll give one thought based on the example of gay marriage. Personally, I believe in it and fight for it. Personally, if I didn't believe in the idea of marriage, I would still fight for it. I would not feel like I was betraying myself, because I would believe that people should have the right to get married, even if I didn't value it for myself.

When I do disagree with something, like the thought that Bert and Ernie should be "married" to provide an example for kids, I state so, because despite my believes in gay marriage, I also feel there is a time and a place for everything. I manage to be both for marriage and against something some gay people supported with marriage as a tie-in.

Is this making sense? I really don't know how to answer otherwise without examples, I guess.

[fenris]

I always say that if 3 guys wear the same caps it does not mean that they must be friends....

For me my own individuality is very important.... I do what I want to do, not what a group means that I have to do ( thats why I´m freeflying pagan and not connected to a coven like wicca ). And thats the same with being gay, being a man, being a human, being a european, being a world citizen mile:
As many of you know germany is a Country of associations/clubs ..we call it "Vereine"... groups of people bowl, collect stamps, wearing beards, collect cars, doing sports, are shoting clubs, gardening in Schrebergaerten and so on.... I have tried to play tennis, to swim, to bowl ... but it don´t work with me... all this group-things prevent me to being myself... maybe I´m much to selfish... but I can only do what I think it is right for me....

Only to be gay is not enough for me to support gay groups... but if they work in a way I can identify with... Ok ... but that don´t mean that I have urgent to become a member of this group.... I can be a member of female rights groups, too if I think that the work they do is Ok for me.

[OrphanPip]

I believe in the concept of keeping a united front for practical reasons. I think of it a lot like how I think of family, I might criticize my mother all the time, but so help you God if you criticize my mother.

[East]

Thanks for giving me some more things to consider and I must admit I was trying to avoid the exact conflict that motivated me to post this topic but this is actually an ongoing internal conflict and I can give specific examples going back to my teens...

The current conflict and maybe the worst one yet for me personally is defending the Gay Republicans Choice of Ann Coulter to become a member of their board...I am sitting there at dinner with a group of straight friends who are asking me about it and I was defending these people simply because they are gay and I wanted to wash afterward because I felt creepy and dirty...I was really angry and disgusted with myself and I felt like I dont' deserve their respect anymore because I totally agreed with them and yet I chose to defend people I dont respect or agree with at all just because they are gay...

I do think the greater good is more important sometimes and I will sacrifice my personal opinion gladly sometimes but I really wish I could figure out where the line is...

...Ann Coulter may just be that line.....

[ToddYoung]

I've never felt as though I can identify with any group, gay people included. Nevertheless, I do think it's important for gay people to stand up for each other. When you look at the prejudices of the past, pre 1970s, you have to think how far gay people have come. Personally, I don't like the idea of gay marriage. I don't suppose I like the idea of marriage at all, but I feel gay people should still have the right to marry. If other people have it, we should have it.

[SlipknotRlZZ]

I ALWAYS speak my mind, I mean, it's even like..I autoatically go against the flow and against what most people like. If the majority of my peers like Lady Gaga I start hating her. Most people hate Disney shows, I love them. I never go with the group...

[fredv3b]

I believe in the concept of keeping a united front for practical reasons. I think of it a lot like how I think of family, I might criticize my mother all the time, but so help you God if you criticize my mother.

I completely agree, in general terms.

The current conflict and maybe the worst one yet for me personally is defending the Gay Republicans Choice of Ann Coulter to become a member of their board...I am sitting there at dinner with a group of straight friends who are asking me about it and I was defending these people simply because they are gay and I wanted to wash afterward because I felt creepy and dirty...I was really angry and disgusted with myself and I felt like I dont' deserve their respect anymore because I totally agreed with them and yet I chose to defend people I dont respect or agree with at all just because they are gay...

I do think the greater good is more important sometimes and I will sacrifice my personal opinion gladly sometimes but I really wish I could figure out where the line is...

...Ann Coulter may just be that line.....

Moderation, East, moderation. You desire to defend other gays is admirable, but defending the indefensible is just plain silly. I'm not sure where exactly the line is either, but Ann Coulter is clearly well beyond it. Also it was GOProud who invited Ann Coulter to join their board, the Log Cabin Republicans (the larger, older, more moderate Gay Republican group) has done nothing so ridiculous.

[princealbertofb]

I ALWAYS speak my mind, I mean, it's even like..I autoatically go against the flow and against what most people like. If the majority of my peers like Lady Gaga I start hating her. Most people hate Disney shows, I love them. I never go with the group...

You're a maverick, Ryan! :biggrin: