Ignorance of History

[Almac]

Fascism is a radical nationalist ideology, I'd say the BNP are pretty close (as they are a nationalist party) but aren't quite a fascist party. Even if we get away from the insanity of the Nazi regime, the BNP seem like pussy cats next to the Spanish Falange movement under Franco or the National Party in South Africa during apartheid. (Also, it's difficult to transcribe these definitions onto modern political organizations, because the meaning of conservatism has changed quite a bit)

I knew people who were members of the National Front a forerunner of the BNP and I know some who support that party, and I can tell you they are every bit a fascist party. I once made the mistake of going to a party at a pub where most of the members were National Front members, I was lucky that night to come out with my life...

[zeon]

hello,
The problem with todays society is we are chaning all the timne and forgetting where symbols came from... In Germany or Deutchland as they like it spelt it is a criminal offence to bear that logo and i beleive it wont get very far but yet again there are cults all round the world. Maybe one day things will improve

Kindest regards

zeon x

[Almac]

Heh. A liiiiittle off topic, but:
How close would some of you consider the BNP to Neo-Nazism?
I've been talking(confronting more like) with a BNP supporter recently. :frown:
He's said quite a lot of nasty things and lies. And started accusing people of being Nazis. :mad:
I wondered if telling him his position is far closer to Nazism would be a good idea.
Of course, the BNP aren't as socialist(Though i'm not sure to what extent the Nazis were) or follow a pseudo religion.(The BNP's views come straight from Christianity instead of a corrupted version of it.)

[SIZE="3"][COLOR="Navy"]Perhaps i shouldn't post such controversial topics.:redface:

For a start Genersis you mean National Socialism and not socialist..! Secondly If he's a true BNP supporter I would not even attempt to say anything not from my experience of those people it could be very dangerous. Trust me the BNP is every bit as Nazi as any Nazi can be.
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[Inchante]

Thanks for the input.:biggrin:
I really shouldn't smear the guys political party i guess, especially as i would be doing it because HE is smearing people by calling them Nazis.

It is a bit ironic when the political groups which are closest in aspect to Fascism start tossing the term around about other parties.

[Genersis]

For a start Genersis you mean National Socialism and not socialist..! Secondly If he's a true BNP supporter I would not even attempt to say anything not from my experience of those people it could be very dangerous. Trust me the BNP is every bit as Nazi as any Nazi can be.
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Oh. I see.
I thought the National, and Socialism in their name was separate so to speak. Basically describing there political beliefs.
But National Socialism when combined is something completely different.
Have i got it right yet?:redface:
Thanks for helping me set this straight so to speak.mile:

[fenris]

I'd relax if I were you. It's not like these few kids are going to start Fourth Reich in Malaysia. Besides, Nazi ideology only works for caucasian/white groups, so you don't have to fear these punks emerging in Malaysia They're our problem. Maybe we should shoot them Nazis to space or something? Out of sight, out of mind.

I think the Nazi Ideology works everywhere .... A leader, a homemade ideology mixed with history, fantasy and fairy tales, set your own country on the top of the list that your people think they are the best people of the world, but hold them in every minute of their life in fear, find some people to be your scapegoat, enough people in your own leader system to punish the people for stupid thinks and every word they speak ( in Germany 1933 it starts at home then street, town and so on ... and teach your children from Kindergarten on your ideology in a way that they have no problem send over their own parents to your homemade punishment system and it works.
Important is a System of fear .... That has worked under the Nazis, under the Stasi of the GDR, under the KGB of the soviet union... you can see it today in north Korea.
Important is not the ideology.. only the leader and a system that makes your masses happy with work, money... and time... much time to set the ideology in the heads. Most people think in germany it starts in 1933..and ended 1945 ...but it starts right after WW1... maybe 1919... 1920... so we have not 12 ..we have 22 years. Many time to set bugs in the heads of a citizenship.
Maybe someone know the movie "Die Welle" .. translated "the Wave".. there you can see that it works ... everywhere...
Thats why I say.. stop it at the beginning ... a flag, a sign... searching for scapegoats... and the clock starts ticking

[dfiant]

When I was a 15-year-old runaway I met some skins (let's see, that would've been 1998). I mostly met them at a mosh place where punks and skins both went and generally hated each other (I wasn't a punk, but I did socialize with them so the skins hated me--and would come to hate me more and even physically attack me later). I could say a lot about what happened there, but I'll just say something that fascinated me then and really fascinates me now in retrospect: there was one group of skins (hated by other skinheads) who believed gay males were superior to straight males, though they considered lesbians to be the lowest forms of life (especially Jewish lesbians). The other skins hated them of course, but the gay skins were more than willing to fight back. They hated the punks, too, so they had no allies.

I first got onto the internet in 2000 and at first I visited a lot of chats. I don't recall how it happened but I came across another gay skinhead (who didn't know I was female and I never enlightened him) and asked him about that. I forget the details but he said that some of the Nazi officers they revered were gay and also described the Romans (which he admired) as men having sex with men and only with women for procreation and wanted to see the USA become that way, too. Scary, but fascinating IMO.

I don't really worry about them gaining political power, though. When it comes to fringe groups I'm much more worried about Dominionists than I am about white (or any other racial) supremacists and neonazis (that's not to say that I consider them harmless).

And this thread reminds me of how many sport the Iron Cross. Knowing its history and being around skinheads who loved it, I've always been uncomfortable about it, but from what I gather the surfers and such who sport it really have no idea as to its history and so aren't making an ideological statement at all. It's purely a fashion accessory to them. So I don't sweat it, I just don't take part in it.

I can remember the early and mid 1980's when skins came to prominance and the damage they did to the punk movement. I was a young and up-and-coming punk and I was constantly called a facsist etc and it wasn't until the late 80's that skins and punks were seen as sperate and entirely different in their ideologies.

Punks are peaceful yet slightly agressive protesters.
Skins are hate filled violent thugs who idolise the Hitlers and Mussalini's of the world...A Great Aussie movie with Russell Crowe documents the Skin's - Romper Stomper

[Almac]

I can remember the early and mid 1980's when skins came to prominance and the damage they did to the punk movement. I was a young and up-and-coming punk and I was constantly called a facsist etc and it wasn't until the late 80's that skins and punks were seen as sperate and entirely different in their ideologies.

Punks are peaceful yet slightly agressive protesters.
Skins are hate filled violent thugs who idolise the Hitlers and Mussalini's of the world...A Great Aussie movie with Russell Crowe documents the Skin's - Romper Stomper

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I really never met any punks but skin heads they were ten for a penny where I live. And you're so right they were filled with hatred. I can remember in the 1970s skin heads heading for town with only one thought in their heads that was to 'bash the immigrants' that lived there.
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[princealbertofb]

I think the Nazi Ideology works everywhere .... A leader, a homemade ideology mixed with history, fantasy and fairy tales, set your own country on the top of the list that your people think they are the best people of the world, but hold them in every minute of their life in fear, find some people to be your scapegoat, enough people in your own leader system to punish the people for stupid thinks and every word they speak ( in Germany 1933 it starts at home then street, town and so on ... and teach your children from Kindergarten on your ideology in a way that they have no problem send over their own parents to your homemade punishment system and it works.
Important is a System of fear .... That has worked under the Nazis, under the Stasi of the GDR, under the KGB of the soviet union... you can see it today in north Korea.
Important is not the ideology.. only the leader and a system that makes your masses happy with work, money... and time... much time to set the ideology in the heads. Most people think in germany it starts in 1933..and ended 1945 ...but it starts right after WW1... maybe 1919... 1920... so we have not 12 ..we have 22 years. Many time to set bugs in the heads of a citizenship.
Maybe someone know the movie "Die Welle" .. translated "the Wave".. there you can see that it works ... everywhere...
Thats why I say.. stop it at the beginning ... a flag, a sign... searching for scapegoats... and the clock starts ticking

You're right. Another great film about that, as far as I remember, because I saw this quite a while ago... The Serpent's Egg by Ingmar Bergman. (1977)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076686/

[Jay]

I'd relax if I were you. It's not like these few kids are going to start Fourth Reich in Malaysia. Besides, Nazi ideology only works for caucasian/white groups, so you don't have to fear these punks emerging in Malaysia They're our problem. Maybe we should shoot them Nazis to space or something? Out of sight, out of mind.

I don't want the young generation to get the wrong message. I don't want them to think it's okay and it's cool to wear swastika t-shirt. These kids are lacking with history knowledge. Wearing a swastika t-shirt is an insult to the victims of the Nazi.