UK youth unemployment in the spotlight

[Almac]

Oh to live in such a perfect world!


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If only we could live in a world where poverty and want is banished. That reminds me of Charles Dickens and 'A Christmas Carol'...! Well it is nearly Christmas...!


[SIZE="3"][COLOR="Navy"]"'Forgive me if I am not justified in what I ask,' said
Scrooge, looking intently at the Spirit's robe,' but I see
something strange, and not belonging to yourself, protruding
from your skirts. Is it a foot or a claw.'

'It might be a claw, for the flesh there is upon it,' was
the Spirit's sorrowful reply. 'Look here.'

From the foldings of its robe, it brought two children;
wretched, abject, frightful, hideous, miserable. They knelt
down at its feet, and clung upon the outside of its garment.

'Oh, Man. look here. Look, look, down here.' exclaimed the Ghost.

They were a boy and a girl. Yellow, meagre, ragged, scowling,
wolfish; but prostrate, too, in their humility. Where
graceful youth should have filled their features out, and
touched them with its freshest tints, a stale and shrivelled
hand, like that of age, had pinched, and twisted them, and
pulled them into shreds. Where angels might have sat
enthroned, devils lurked, and glared out menacing. No
change, no degradation, no perversion of humanity, in any
grade, through all the mysteries of wonderful creation, has
monsters half so horrible and dread.

Scrooge started back, appalled. Having them shown to him
in this way, he tried to say they were fine children, but
the words choked themselves, rather than be parties to a lie
of such enormous magnitude.

'Spirit. are they yours.' Scrooge could say no more.

'They are Man's,' said the Spirit, looking down upon
them. 'And they cling to me, appealing from their fathers.
This boy is Ignorance. This girl is Want. Beware them both,
and all of their degree, but most of all beware this boy,
for on his brow I see that written which is Doom, unless the
writing be erased. Deny it.' cried the Spirit, stretching out
its hand towards the city. 'Slander those who tell it ye.
Admit it for your factious purposes, and make it worse.
And abide the end.'

'Have they no refuge or resource.' cried Scrooge.

'Are there no prisons.' said the Spirit, turning on him
for the last time with his own words. 'Are there no workhouses.'"

- A Christmas Carol, Stave 3: The Second of the Three Spirits[/COLOR][/SIZE]

[cloud999]

You make a very good argument cloud999, however, 'Austerity Measures', cutting back on public sector employment and expecting the private sector to pick up the slack is the economics of the mad house. Don't cut jobs when there are no immediate prospect of jobs to fill those jobs lost. Create youth training give those enforced idle hands something to do, if that great President Franklin D. Roosevelt, could do it with his 'New Deal' (1933 and 1936) why not now????

FDR prolonged the Great Depression by severely damaging the private sector via his National Recovery Administration and later the National Labor Relations Act. While he did employ some via government work (WPA), he put far more out of work by destroying small businesses through anti-competition and pro-union law.

FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate


Have you considered why the private sector is not creating jobs at the moment? Do you think the private sector will start creating jobs if the public sector expands via additional taxes? Do you think the public sector can generate more tax income than the private sector? If so, how?

[cloud999]

Fred there is always great people with great ideas

Hint: You won't find them in politics.

[Almac]

To be honest cloud999, I still believe what he did was for the right reasons, I can't argue with those two economists. But I'm sure there are other economists who could fire their idea down in flames? The private sector in Britain is being stifled by the banks not lending them money, and if you can't get money to expand, employ more people then the labour market stagnates. The public sector can never create wealth I'm sensible enough to know that. Saying that, those who work in the public sector while employed will be paying taxes, buying consumer goods and the rest so in a round-about way they are creating wealth. But throw them out of work and the taxes they pay is lost the the consumer goods they could afford stays on the shelf, and to add to this the tax payer then has to pay their dole money....

[cloud999]

To be honest cloud999, I still believe what he did was for the right reasons, I can't argue with those two economists. But I'm sure there are other economists who could fire their idea down in flames?

The ones who do (Keynesians) have been leading the US Government since 2006. Keynes was FDRs personal advisor during the Great Depression.

In my opinion, we are re-living FDRs mistakes all over again. God help us if, like during FDR's presidency, this recession lasts until the start of World War Three.

The private sector in Britain is being stifled by the banks not lending them money, and if you can't get money to expand, employ more people then the labour market stagnates. The public sector can never create wealth I'm sensible enough to know that. Saying that, those who work in the public sector while employed will be paying taxes, buying consumer goods and the rest so in a round-about way they are creating wealth. But throw them out of work and the taxes they pay is lost the the consumer goods they could afford stays on the shelf, and to add to this the tax payer then has to pay their dole money....

That's part of the reason why your European welfare-states are stuck and your EU is in danger of collapse. The burden of supporting so many people via your National Health Service, Unemployment, and Poverty programs is crippling the private sector so it can't grow, which means more and more people will be put on the dole as the private sector stagnates and shrinks.

Hiring more government workers is a short-term solution, because paying those government workers requires income from a now-shrinking private sector. Thus, you have to fund those government jobs with national debt...until you end up like Greece, Italy, Ireland, Portugal, and Spain.

What do you do when your social programs (like the NHS) are too large for your private sector to support? You can try to enact austerity measures to preserve smaller social programs while enabling the private sector to grow, as the Tories now do. Or you can take on more government debt until you have a crisis like Greece today.

Ironically, the "nasty party" you often attack may be the only group that can save your National Health Service, in the long run.

We're in the middle of this debate here in America...the Democrats want to continue increasing the national debt, while the Republicans want to enact austerity measures.

Some would argue that we, like Greece, are too far gone for this debate to really matter...and that collapse is our only option. I honestly don't know. Nobody does.

[zeon]

Your argument is fundamentally flawed. Would you consign hundreds of thousands of unemployed to the scrap heap without a hope in hell of ever getting into the labour market again? A million youths who cannot find work, does not the private sector want them? The truth is, if we don't find employment for those less fortunate than ourselves than the tax payer ends up paying for their benefits, and please don't say they should not get benefits. In the majority of cases those losing their jobs or can't find meaningful employment are not at fault, unless you read such daily rags like the Express and Mail?

I'm not sure about your argument about the US Treasury, but one thing I do know, a creative mind in Government, sadly one does not exist in this lousy rich man's Government could come up with an idea to create training and the conditions for employment. Sadly there is no John Maynard Keynes amongst this load of rich dimwits.

I do feel for people who i hear alot state there is no work out there... Sometimes i think people need to take any job to begin with as beggars cant be choosers and in todays society the streets are not paved with gold in any walk of life... I know when i was out of work for 1 year it drove me bloody mental! The goverment state about cutting back on job seekers allowance and so on but how can they expect to do that if they dont give a boost to the local communites throughout the UK to make more jobs????

Kindest regards

zeon

[cloud999]

Sadly there is no John Maynard Keynes amongst this load of rich dimwits.

On the contrary, Obama's administration is filled with Keynes' modern acolytes. You are experiencing the effects of Keynes policies as we speak.

Both of Obama's Chief Economic Chairpersons, Christian Romer and Alan Krueger, are two leading academic New Keynesians. We've had three solid years of Keynesian leadership in America.

[fredv3b]

I think Almac was referring to the British Tory party. Obama can afford to be Keynesian. Cameron can't or, at least, he believes he can't.


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[Almac]

That's part of the reason why your European welfare-states are stuck and your EU is in danger of collapse. The burden of supporting so many people via your National Health Service, Unemployment, and Poverty programs is crippling the private sector so it can't grow, which means more and more people will be put on the dole as the private sector stagnates and shrinks.

[SIZE="2"][COLOR="Navy"]Don't I just love to read a Republican's thoughts on the British welfare system. I'm afraid you've got one or two supporters in the British Government, thankfully they are a minority Government in coalition with the Liberal Democrats.

Can you justify your statement about the welfare state crippling the private sector, what evidence do you have??? In reality what is crippling small to medium sized companies are the banks unwillingness to lend money to those firms that desperately need it. The British tax payer, bailed out most of those British banks and now they will not bail out the firms that rely on that money to employ those who need work. [/COLOR][/SIZE]

[Bowyn Aerrow]

The irony is that, were these hungry students to somehow take control, it wouldn't just be students starving. To use your French Revolution analogy...the revolution led to Le Emperor, Napoleon. His empire and resulting decades of war were a far cry from what the initial revolutionaries desired.

Quite true.