Is it wrong to demonize "Rosary Rattlers" as they are sworn enemies of GLBT?

[WesHollywood]

Wes, your a dumb ass.

What you think you have a major battle on your hands? You tend to forget that the ground work, the real hard get arrested, be electroshock'd, be imprisoned, tortured work has already been done by those BEFORE you.

We LGBT didn't get here by being militant, we got here by slow pressures and eroding away at the issues. We built up, not destroyed.

Militant gays have done more to HARM our people than to do good.

10 years from now the USA is going to have most of the states with gay marriage. Mark my words. And its not going to be done by militant gays, its going to be done by the slow eroding, the gentle talks, the millions of us way out in the middle of the conservatives who are slowly swinging the votes in our favor.

In less than 50 years the Church will concede gay marriage.

Your GLBT history is not quite what it should be. The GLBT movement in the U. S. officially began when GLBT customers would not take any more police harassment in the Stonewall Inn in New York and fought back. Most would call that a violent act.

We GLBT ALWAYS have a major battle on our hands. Politics is war without guns, and usually the guns are not far away.

Nothing was given to GLBT. We have what we got BECAUSE WE TOOK IT! We MADE it happen.

"Slow pressures and eroding away at the issues," sounds like the same failed words we are hearing as to why Washington has not passed a JOBS bill. Oldest cliché on the planet, "The squeaky wheel gets the grease."

Why don't you tell us all how your prayers and religious services have made GLBT rights better? I've told you before the quote attributed to Al Capone, "A kind word and a gun will get you further than just a kind word."

Come out of your bubble and join the rest of the planet.

[WesHollywood]

And if we start doing that, the Catholic Church would be completely justified doing the same back to us. Instead of unjustified like they are now.

I can post information that both sides have been doing it for a long time. Only difference is Catholics have all that religious history to hide behind, and they have made GLBT look like a bunch of sickies lurking in public bathroom stalls.

Then along comes a GLBT friendly movie maker like Mel Brooks who takes the dirtiest actions of the Roman Catholic Church, THE INQUISITION and turns it into a musical comedy! He gets his point across well. http://www.heavy.com/comedy/comedy-video...quisition/

History of the World, Part One, classic Mel Brooks!

[WesHollywood]

Wes ,
You are a great kid, you really are.

Now you may think that the only way to fight a war is by acting like your enemy, but that is not true , you can win one battle at a time, and you do not have to lose your dignity or lower yourself to the underhanded ignorant tactics of your enemy.

I stood shoulder to shoulder, and arm in arm with both my GLBT friends and straight friends as we marched together for decriminalizing being gay.

We all knew the risks , we read the papers and watched and listened to the media, as they where reporting that Archbishops and Cardinals were threatening us with excommunication,some employers were threatening our jobs, and as we marched arm in arm, losing our religion and the respect of many, we kept in mind all the gay bashing's some resulting in death, that the police did nothing about.

Back then it was not about marriage rights , it was about human rights.
I hope you can understand the severity of the situation that we had here.

No ! I am not after your sympathy ,nor do I expect a thank you, we did what we had to do and I for one do not regret any of it.

I hope when you reach my age of 47 ,you can hold your head high and have no regrets.

Perhaps to you, what we achieved peacefully in 1984 after years of marching, may not mean much, but to us it was a victory, and as we stood there at the end of the battle, we knew that we were a part of history.

We won that war , without blood shed , without loss of dignity and most importantly with out resorting to the low tactics of our enemy.

Did the church welcome us back to the fold after the dust settled?
Of course it did.
Would it have welcomed us back if we had of acted in violence and with force?
Probably not .

Most interesting post, and it effects me personally. My GLBT mentor who runs the West Coast Office of our firm constantly, I mean constantly reminds me. "Whatever you are do, do it with NO REGRETS." It has reached a point where "NO REGRETS" is one of the first things I consider when considering any controversial act or decision.

That said, I grew up in a world where it was "Ladies do this. Gentlemen do that." I can play that game, but I am only a Gentleman when I have to be. We take no hostages in politics. The Roman Catholic Church, (remember the Inquisition) justifies any action they take with "for the good of the church." These people are not afraid to get right down in the sewer in a dog fight."

For years I walked around with my "Love One Another" placard.

Then I read the biography of Chicago Mayor Richard [COLOR="Sienna"]J. Daley[/COLOR], and committed myself to his famous quotation, "Don't get mad, get even." I sleep much better at night realizing I am an animal with natural instincts, not some self-controlled robot who does what some Pope says. I can think for myself, and I know evil when I see it. The Roman Catholic Church is some of the most dangerous evil on this planet.

Richard J. Daley and son, Richard M. Daley recently retired Mayor of Chicago.
Both grew up and lived in the same bungalow they were born in.

[East]

I can think for myself, and I know evil when I see it. The Roman Catholic Church is some of the most dangerous evil on this planet.

I have felt the same way for years. The probelm with evil is that if they can get you to sink to their level they win.

[LateBloomer]

Most interesting post, and it effects me personally. My GLBT mentor who runs the West Coast Office of our firm constantly, I mean constantly reminds me. "Whatever you are do, do it with NO REGRETS." It has reached a point where "NO REGRETS" is one of the first things I consider when considering any controversial act or decision.

That said, I grew up in a world where it was "Ladies do this. Gentlemen do that." I can play that game, but I am only a Gentleman when I have to be. We take no hostages in politics. The Roman Catholic Church, (remember the Inquisition) justifies any action they take with "for the good of the church." These people are not afraid to get right down in the sewer in a dog fight."

For years I walked around with my "Love One Another" placard.

Then I read the biography of Chicago Mayor Richard [COLOR="Sienna"]J. Daley[/COLOR], and committed myself to his famous quotation, "Don't get mad, get even." I sleep much better at night realizing I am an animal with natural instincts, not some self-controlled robot who does what some Pope says. I can think for myself, and I know evil when I see it. The Roman Catholic Church is some of the most dangerous evil on this planet.

Richard J. Daley and son, Richard M. Daley recently retired Mayor of Chicago.
Both grew up and lived in the same bungalow they were born in.

Now it's MY turn to roll my eyes sarcastically and exclaim, OH PLEASE!



Melodramatic much?

:biggrin:

Dude, how long you been in HollyWEIRD?

It's starting to rub off on you.

[Bowyn Aerrow]

When I was 20-something it was illegal to have gay sex in many states. It was a criminal offense.

If you came out at work, the chances were high that you were fired for being gay.

When Vincent (my second partner) beat the crap out of me landing me up in hospital, the police officer that came to take a report told me point blank 'Your a pervert, you got exactly what you deserve'. He refused to file criminal or even civil complaint because we were gay and a 'gay problem' was not a problem for the court system.

I knew guys who had gone to the Mental Hospital for 'treatment' - this included such wonderful things as electroshock therapy. While the AMA admitted that being gay was not a 'mental illness' some gays were still being 'treated' for the mental illness of homosexuality. Doctors were more than willing to treat the patient.

Ever see a person who has had 70-400 volts of electricity sent through the brain? It makes stroke victims look like they are having fun.

In the 80's, I attended hundreds of bedsides of men dying from the Gay disease, ostracized by society and their family and Reagan totally ignored the epidemic pretended it wasn't happening. "The Gay Disease" was considered an acceptable phrase for HIV/AIDS.

We didn't win our 'rights' to life and liberty through destroying the system. We pushed and prod, stood out in rain and shine with petitions, many a street argument I had with many of so called 'Christians' where that bible was the fodder for BOTH sides of the argument. Maybe I used elven magic, or maybe I'm just blessed with a bit o' the Blarney, but I got many supporting signatures from people who, before meeting me refused the idea of decriminalizing homosexuality, refused the idea of AIDS research, refused the right for gays to be able to hold on to their job instead of being fired out of hand for being 'that way'.

Yes it started with a riot, but the riot soon passed and the 'debate' went with the tools of the system we were up against. For each rally, for each march there were hundreds if not thousands of individuals getting signatures and slowly winning each point of the newest argument by talking to individuals and groups.

I lived in a time where I could have been lynched for walking into a Church wearing a collar and admitting I was gay. The Episcopal Church didn't acknowledge open homosexual clergy until the mid 1990's even then they had a policy of 'Don't ask, Don't tell'. What you think that just happened because some rioters in new york decided to make a scene? No it happened because closeted clergy such as myself sent millions of letters 'debating' the idea that homosexuality is not the sin that the Church held it to be.

None of this was achieved through destroying the system. The Stone Wall riots only made the world know that there was a problem, it was the rest of us who worked behind the scenes winning one signature at a time that got those fancy laws and bills passed so you can enjoy the freedoms you have.

IF it had been a war - a riot, a destructive force you and I and every other gay person would either be hiding deep in a closet or sitting in prison, and you definitely would have a near 50/50 split on the acceptance of gays.

I lived those days, I was there - I know exactly what happened. Where were you Wes?

[LateBloomer]

Awesome post BA.

[WesHollywood]

Now it's MY turn to roll my eyes sarcastically and exclaim, OH PLEASE!



Melodramatic much?

:biggrin:

Dude, how long you been in HollyWEIRD?

It's starting to rub off on you.

Have you lived in Chicago? Have you ever researched the city? I have.

Let's start with brief list of people from Chicago - Barry Obama, and White House Chief of Staff, Bill Daley, brother to former Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley. U. S. Senator Dick Durbin. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, now from New York, but raised in Chicago. Don't forget former White House Chief of Staff and now Chicago Mayor, Rahm Emanual. Pundit Chris Mathews. Your country is being run by Chicagoans and this is not the first time in American history. Read up on JFK and the Daley family. Wouldn't hurt to know who the Giancana clan was either. And, that is just off the top of my head.

In 1871 the famous Chicago fire wiped out the city overnight. Law of the streets prevailed and has never left. An opportunist tried to take advantage after the Chicago fire, and they were shot. Chicago in 1871 was Socialism in action. The spirit is alive today. Chicago is a city that works better than other, trains run on time, trash is picked up, and when it snows they keep O'Hare Airport open, and finish all streets.

And we have famous people like corrupt Republican Mayor big Bill Thompson and gangster Al Capone. All part of a mystique about Chicago that makes residents stand behind their openly rough and tumble politics. This is the way Chicago likes it, and the city is a model of big city organization.

A little known secret about Chicago City Hall is that the Mayor's Office on the sixth floor is directly
below a roof garden that provides a place for city officials to relax and discuss city issues.
Chicago is probably not what you think it is from it's projected image.
I consider myself a proud subscriber to Chicago politics. I work for a Chicago company.
Bring anything into focus for you? Gleaning yet how American politics actually work?
The Daleys and the Kennedys, both have GLBT and are RMC, could that mean.........stacked deck?

[COLOR="Blue"]The topic of this thread is;

Is it wrong to demonize "Rosary Rattlers" as they are sworn enemies of GLBT?

[/COLOR]

[LateBloomer]

[COLOR="Blue"]The topic of this thread is;

Is it wrong to demonize "Rosary Rattlers" as they are sworn enemies of GLBT?

[/COLOR]

I love Chicago.

Answer to original question: Yeah, it's wrong. Love thy enemy.

[WesHollywood]

I love Chicago.

Answer to original question: Yeah, it's wrong. Love thy enemy.

Well, you see, now we have found your problem. Oh, in a utopian world, or the NICE bubble many human sheep dwell in, you would be correct.

But, accepting human beings for the violent, self-serving, manipulative bastards we are, NO WAY. This is why advertising agencies and corporations have so much power. While you are out picking flowers, we are programming you on what breakfast cereal to buy or politician to elect. We know what reality is, and we can back up that opinion with research and facts. We are business people and we are very thorough when it comes to spending corporate monies.

There are over 2,000 Google Searchs on "deamonizing enemies" and here they are. You have some reading to do. http://www.google.com/search?q=Deamonizi...=firefox-a

Who do you think develops terms like "fag," "spic," or "Rosary Rattlers." Hint, it is not us in advertising, it is everyday people. Even if people do not use these hate words, we have them in our heads. If we are going to take someone down, like we plan to do with the pro-illegal alien Mexican-Americans who voted against GLBT marriage, you can expect disgusting things like this utube and in return we can expect things like these graphics.

Don't shoot the messenger, come out of your ivory tower. This comic little bit of hatred came from a Republican graphics house, and seems to have quite an emotional effect on anyone who sees it. Do I approve, of course not it cloaks a nasty issue with more hate. Will I personally use it to advance the cause of GLBT marriage? When the time comes - without a doubt. Fortunately, this is not that time, I am just offering a sample of what we have in our bag of tricks.

While La Raza, (legally listed as a lobby in Washington, D. C.) continues efforts to make our border States a province of Mexico, they should be reminded of the Mexican American in the War in the 1840s. The United States won that war. We forgave Mexico all its debts. And, paid $28,000,000 for the border as it now stands.

Yet, Mexico continues to strive to dominate the southwest U. S. with their culture. They have not assimilated to American life. We have 12,000,000 Mexican illegals, or soldiers if you will, within U. S. borders. These are facts that can be used to "educate" Latinos about their role in the United States, and what they owe GLBT politically, specifically gay marriage.

So, well all the holy Joes sit back and point their fingers, we realists are going to go out and try again for gay marriage. This is where the rubber meets the road. Anyone not on board is expendable. No, I am barely involved in this effort at all, but I will send a check, and I will vote.

Is it just me, or do you think just maybe the United States is in for more problems with Mexico?
The GLBT problem with Mexican American voters is just a part of a bigger mess.