Almac Wrote:I'm afraid it's coming up for Presidential elections in Yankee land and so we can look forward to an incident that will spark off hostilities with Iran, oh and for the British Government, well it's the American Government's poodle, and so will go wagging it's tail into any conflict that the Americans feel they need to have, to secure their oil.
Election year has always been a bad year to start a war, most American politicians understand this. Obama's Administration will, most likely do everything in its power to see a diplomatic bandaid/plaster temporary fix solution to push the Iranian war until he secures his second term.
Granted the Republican fare offered for president most likely has already made a second Term Obama a set future, still starting a war this year would not go over well. Do we all really want to think in terms of President Newt?
The wounds of the Iraqi long drawn out 'quick war' and the failures of the previous administration to capture bin Laden, the last thing any president wants to do is start another war that may leave political egg on his face, especially when he has 4 more years to win and serve.
All bets are off AFTER the election... that is another story.
01-31-2012, 04:27 PM (Edited 01-31-2012, 04:29 PM by mrk2010.)
Almac Wrote:[SIZE="3"][COLOR="DarkSlateBlue"]You forget it was the British who controlled Palestine, and allowed the ethic cleansing of the Palestinian Arabs and many Jewish Arabs also from the land of their birth. Your argument is simplistic, to deny the right of a certain populace to live in the land of their birth is just wrong. It's a festering sore that will never heal unless there is a settlement. Yes Israel does have the strength to attack, but at the end of the day they are still financially supported by the USA. You certainly give the impression of racial hatred toward the Palestinians.
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Not at all, I don't show any racial hatred toward the Palestinian's I simply object at the fact that Israel wants peace and they sign all these treaties and have negotiations etc and year it's Gaza which seems to break them, therefore retaliation is justified. I would like it nothing more for it to be peaceful, I myself was christened out there so I bear no racial hatred. I think you may have gotten the wrong end of the stick Al.
Also with regard to my previous statement, it's tit for tat, there are no innocent parties I'm afraid.
mrk2010 Wrote:Not at all, I don't show any racial hatred toward the Palestinian's I simply object at the fact that Israel wants peace and they sign all these treaties and have negotiations etc and year it's Gaza which seems to break them, therefore retaliation is justified. I would like it nothing more for it to be peaceful, I myself was christened out there so I bear no racial hatred. I think you may have gotten the wrong end of the stick Al.
[COLOR="Navy"]Also with regard to my previous statement, it's tit for tat, there are no innocent parties I'm afraid.
The fact is, there are a displaced people (Palestinian Arabs) If the Israelis were that bothered about peace then they would allow the Palestinians the right to self determination, "Statehood", and stop building settlements, on the West Bank. You are like so many people who can't see past the horrors of the Holocaust and so think of the Jews as a people who were hard done by in the past refuse to see we are dealing with a today, not something that happened generations ago. [/COLOR]
I have sympathy for the Palestinians...always have...but not necessarily at the expense of Israel...I understand and appreciate Israel's position though Israel, like the US and any country, can be hard nosed and not really open to negotiation depending upon the leaders they have chosen at any given moment in history. A few Israeli leaders (and Palestinian leaders) have been fascist assholes...much like Bush. There is also evolving public opinion which is a powerful force and people who build bridges of understanding and those who tear these apart to consider.
The ethnic cleansing becomes a problem for alot of people when it is the Jewish versus the Muslim but inter Muslim ethnic cleansing is largely ignored and quite common and when a country who practices ethnic cleansing points fingers at another their point is moot...so I do not accept the argument from most of the Middle East countries against Israel...I don't think there would be a problem if Israel was a Muslim country...haven't alot of Muslim nations had similar situations with the Palestinian people historically? Seems to me they have been kicked out of alot of areas.
I think the US role should be to promote peace in the Middle East and to keep trying to negotiate a solution and bring everyone to the table if possible.
Yes we must never forget the The Armenian Genocide The first genocide of the 20th Century occurred when two million Armenians living in Turkey were eliminated from their historic homeland through forced deportations and massacres. So the Muslims can't deny they hands are clean of ethnic cleansing either.
I have often referenced Dr Britt's defining characteristics of fascist nations as a reminder and a tool to measure the political climate in any country at any time. The Republican Party here today and since Reagan have pretty much embodied and embraced fascism and Israel has come dangerously close on many occasions.
The 14 Defining
Characteristics Of Fascism
Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.
6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed
to the government's policies or actions.
9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
Almac Wrote:The fact is, there are a displaced people (Palestinian Arabs) If the Israelis were that bothered about peace then they would allow the Palestinians the right to self determination, "Statehood", and stop building settlements, on the West Bank. You are like so many people who can't see past the horrors of the Holocaust and so think of the Jews as a people who were hard done by in the past refuse to see we are dealing with a today, not something that happened generations ago. [/COLOR]
To be honest the land has changed hands that many times nobody knows who it belongs to, it is rather an unpleasant situation.
mrk2010 Wrote:To be honest the land has changed hands that many times nobody knows who it belongs to, it is rather an unpleasant situation.
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Blame the Romans, after all who will stick up for their reputation in the Middle East, they started it all..!!! [/COLOR][/SIZE]
I don't think anyone here bears "racial hatred". However I can't stand up for Israel forever if it keeps behaving the way it does. Israel a democracy? It seems more like a theocracy to me. After all the Magden David is their flag and Orthodox Jews need not work there, the state pays for them to study Judaism.They don't seem to genuinely want a two-state solution. Jimmy Carter was interviewed in Time magazine and said the Israelis are "persecuting the Palestinians" and that if Iran does indeed develop nuclear weaponry they will have 1 or 2 Nuclear Weapons to Israel's 300! Enough war This sounds too much like the "pre.- emptive" war Bush started with Iraq that cost us so much lives and money. The U.S. needs to stay out of this. And I don't appreciate the fact that if I said what I posted to Israel or the Jewish community I'd be called an anti- Semite.
BTW- I am Armenian, Turkey still denies there was any genocide. Thr Turks aren't Arabs they're "Turkic"
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