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American Politics - The Difference Between the Presidential Candidates on Gay Issues
#11
Why should we not support this President when he's clearly supporting us?

Exactly..the list you provided is the reason he has won me over....
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#12
CellarDweller Wrote:Whenever I hear of someone who is not going to vote, I shake my head. The first settlers came over here to escape the rule of a king and put place the election system.

Sorry to disagree but....

The settlers mainly came to America for freedom of religion and to escape the Church of England. The founding fathers created a Constitutional Republic. Democracy came later.


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Fred

Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans.
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#13
East Wrote:Why should we not support this President when he's clearly supporting us?
Exactly..the list you provided is the reason he has won me over....


-America was set to fail by the previous administration when Obama started. He had few options
-This next re-election; republican alternatives to Obama are dismal. He is the only choice that would not drive the nation to ruin... again.

with our current forum of government this may be as good as it gets.
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#14
fredv3b Wrote:Sorry to disagree but....

The settlers mainly came to America for freedom of religion and to escape the Church of England. The founding fathers created a Constitutional Republic. Democracy came later.
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Well, that depends on which settlers you are talking about. That is certainly the case with the first groups who settled in New England, but New England was neither the first nor most important colony. Jamestown, Virginia (1607) was the first successful colony among those of the British , and it was settled for economic opportunity/exploitation. The Virginia colony was the wealthiest and most influential of the original British Colonies.

Governor's Mansion of the Colony of Virginia. (If you look close, you can see the Lion and the Unicorn above the front Gate)
[Image: 3580838483_343cb32ae7.jpg]

(St. Augustine, FL is the oldest European Colony in the U.S. however. It is A Spanish Colony dating back to 1565)
[Image: Arbiter_Travel_StAugustine.jpg]
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#15
I'm voting for Obama. I just don't like any of the republican candidates. Most scare me to be honest.
*Looks out window*
Oh! Right! I live in the UK...
Silly Sarcastic So-and-so
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#16
Inchante,

Fair point.


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Fred

Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans.
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#17
A little twist in this thread I know but I always love it when the new "talking points" come out...the little twist on words that pundits and politicians repeat over and over until enough us us are fooled or brainwashed...

It is the reason I hate the term "tolerance" when used be anyone who is in fact discriminating against me as though somehow claiming "tolerance" makes it all OK....it was a talkign point used during Bush's Compassionate Conservative Crapfest.

I despise with a hot white passion when I find someone is trying to intentionally deceive me....

..so I keep up on the new talking points so I can save myself the anger.....

and in case anyone cares...a host of new talking points courtesy of the Republican Governors Association........

The Republican Governor’s Association met in Florida this week and featured pollster Frank Luntz, who offered a coaching session for attendees about how they should communicate to the public. Yahoo! News’ Chris Moody was there, and captured some of Luntz’s comments on Occupy Wall Street.

Luntz told attendees that he’s “scared of this anti-Wall Street effort. I’m frightened to death.” The pollster warned that the movement is “having an impact on what the American people think of capitalism.” So the pollster offered some advice for them about how to fight back. Here’s a few snippets of what he said, according to Moody:

– Don’t Mention Capitalism: Luntz said that his polling research found that “The public…still prefers capitalism to socialism, but they think capitalism is immoral. And if we’re seen as defenders of quote, Wall Street, end quote, we’ve got a problem.”

– Empathize With The 99 Percent Protesters: Luntz instructed attendees to tell protesters that they “get it”: “First off, here are three words for you all: ‘I get it.’ … ‘I get that you’re. I get that you’ve seen inequality. I get that you want to fix the system.”

– Don’t Say Bonus: Luntz told Republicans to re-frame the concept of the bonus payment — which bailed-out Wall Street doles out to its employees during holidays — as “pay for performance” instead.

– Don’t Mention The Middle Class Because Americans Don’t Trust Republicans To Defend It: “They cannot win if the fight is on hardworking taxpayers,” Luntz instructed the audience. “We can say we defend the ‘middle class’ and the public will say, I’m not sure about that. But defending ‘hardworking taxpayers’ and Republicans have the advantage.”

– Don’t Talk About Taxing The Rich: Luntz reminded Republicans that Americans actually do want to tax the rich, so he reccommended they instead say that the government “takes from the rich.”

http://thinkprogress.org/special/2011/12...ll-street/
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#18
Quote:Originally Posted by East
A little twist in this thread I know but I always love it when the new "talking points" come out...the little twist on words that pundits and politicians repeat over and over until enough us us are fooled or brainwashed...

It is the reason I hate the term "tolerance" when used be anyone who is in fact discriminating against me as though somehow claiming "tolerance" makes it all OK....it was a talkign point used during Bush's Compassionate Conservative Crapfest.

I despise with a hot white passion when I find someone is trying to intentionally deceive me....

..so I keep up on the new talking points so I can save myself the anger.....

and in case anyone cares...a host of new talking points courtesy of the Republican Governors Association........

The Republican Governor’s Association met in Florida this week and featured pollster Frank Luntz, who offered a coaching session for attendees about how they should communicate to the public. Yahoo! News’ Chris Moody was there, and captured some of Luntz’s comments on Occupy Wall Street.

Luntz told attendees that he’s “scared of this anti-Wall Street effort. I’m frightened to death.” The pollster warned that the movement is “having an impact on what the American people think of capitalism.” So the pollster offered some advice for them about how to fight back. Here’s a few snippets of what he said, according to Moody:

– Don’t Mention Capitalism: Luntz said that his polling research found that “The public…still prefers capitalism to socialism, but they think capitalism is immoral. And if we’re seen as defenders of quote, Wall Street, end quote, we’ve got a problem.”

– Empathize With The 99 Percent Protesters: Luntz instructed attendees to tell protesters that they “get it”: “First off, here are three words for you all: ‘I get it.’ … ‘I get that you’re. I get that you’ve seen inequality. I get that you want to fix the system.”

– Don’t Say Bonus: Luntz told Republicans to re-frame the concept of the bonus payment — which bailed-out Wall Street doles out to its employees during holidays — as “pay for performance” instead.

– Don’t Mention The Middle Class Because Americans Don’t Trust Republicans To Defend It: “They cannot win if the fight is on hardworking taxpayers,” Luntz instructed the audience. “We can say we defend the ‘middle class’ and the public will say, I’m not sure about that. But defending ‘hardworking taxpayers’ and Republicans have the advantage.”

– Don’t Talk About Taxing The Rich: Luntz reminded Republicans that Americans actually do want to tax the rich, so he reccommended they instead say that the government “takes from the rich.”

http://thinkprogress.org/special/201...y-wall-street/
Seriously?!:eek::mad:
*Checks source*

Quote:ORLANDO, Fla. -- The Republican Governors Association met this week in Florida to give GOP state executives a chance to rejuvenate, strategize and team-build. But during a plenary session on Wednesday, one question kept coming up: How can Republicans do a better job of talking about Occupy Wall Street?
"I'm so scared of this anti-Wall Street effort. I'm frightened to death," said Frank Luntz, a Republican strategist and one of the nation's foremost experts on crafting the perfect political message. "They're having an impact on what the American people think of capitalism."
Luntz offered tips on how Republicans could discuss the grievances of the Occupiers, and help the governors better handle all these new questions from constituents about "income inequality" and "paying your fair share."
Yahoo News sat in on the session, and counted 10 do's and don'ts from Luntz covering how Republicans should fight back by changing the way they discuss the movement.

1. Don't say 'capitalism.'
"I'm trying to get that word removed and we're replacing it with either 'economic freedom' or 'free market,' " Luntz said. "The public . . . still prefers capitalism to socialism, but they think capitalism is immoral. And if we're seen as defenders of quote, Wall Street, end quote, we've got a problem."

2. Don't say that the government 'taxes the rich.' Instead, tell them that the government 'takes from the rich.'
"If you talk about raising taxes on the rich," the public responds favorably, Luntz cautioned. But "if you talk about government taking the money from hardworking Americans, the public says no. Taxing, the public will say yes."

3. Republicans should forget about winning the battle over the 'middle class.' Call them 'hardworking taxpayers.'
"They cannot win if the fight is on hardworking taxpayers. We can say we defend the 'middle class' and the public will say, I'm not sure about that. But defending 'hardworking taxpayers' and Republicans have the advantage."

4. Don't talk about 'jobs.' Talk about 'careers.'
"Everyone in this room talks about 'jobs,'" Luntz said. "Watch this."
He then asked everyone to raise their hand if they want a "job." Few hands went up. Then he asked who wants a "career." Almost every hand was raised.
"So why are we talking about jobs?"

5. Don't say 'government spending.' Call it 'waste.'
"It's not about 'government spending.' It's about 'waste.' That's what makes people angry."

6. Don't ever say you're willing to 'compromise.'
"If you talk about 'compromise,' they'll say you're selling out. Your side doesn't want you to 'compromise.' What you use in that to replace it with is 'cooperation.' It means the same thing. But cooperation means you stick to your principles but still get the job done. Compromise says that you're selling out those principles."

7. The three most important words you can say to an Occupier: 'I get it.'
"First off, here are three words for you all: 'I get it.' . . . 'I get that you're angry. I get that you've seen inequality. I get that you want to fix the system."
Then, he instructed, offer Republican solutions to the problem.

8. Out: 'Entrepreneur.' In: 'Job creator.'
Use the phrases "small business owners" and "job creators" instead of "entrepreneurs" and "innovators."

9. Don't ever ask anyone to 'sacrifice.'
"There isn't an American today in November of 2011 who doesn't think they've already sacrificed. If you tell them you want them to 'sacrifice,' they're going to be be pretty angry at you. You talk about how 'we're all in this together.' We either succeed together or we fail together."

10. Always blame Washington.
Tell them, "You shouldn't be occupying Wall Street, you should be occupying Washington. You should occupy the White House because it's the policies over the past few years that have created this problem."

BONUS:
Don't say 'bonus!'
Luntz advised that if they give their employees an income boost during the holiday season, they should never refer to it as a "bonus."
"If you give out a bonus at a time of financial hardship, you're going to make people angry. It's 'pay for performance.'"
I can't believe i'm saying this, but i REALLY hope this guys just lying to make the GOP look bad.
But to be honest, perhaps due to my liberal leanings, this doesn't surprise me one bit.:frown:
I know politics is all about pushing the peoples buttons to get them to vote for you and hate the opposition but still...

Perhaps a silly question, but:
The article says "GOP state executives" attended this thing., Who would that encompass from the GOP exactly?
Silly Sarcastic So-and-so
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#19
East its called 'NewSpeak'

Newspeak is the official language in George Orwell's handbook Nineteen Eighty-Four 1984.

Take the word Terrorist. Used to apply to any group who used terror to get their way. Today, through repeated use of Islamic with the word Terrorist, we all pretty much think Terrorist and see a guy with a Turban. That has come through 10 years of hard use of the word terrorist while showing images of the middle East, or using the world Islamic before the word Terrorist.

Yet if we look at the language of the Patriot Acts I and II and all of their amendments, we find that terrorist is freely open to interpretation to the point where here in America just speaking out against the Government can be construed as terrorist acts.

Terrorist has the 'public' meaning (Islamic terrorist) and the 'Official' meaning - anyone who dares to talk back at the government.

Media is the propaganda tool most used to get these 'new ideas' over to the people. Politicians will seed the idea, then its up to the media to adapt the new 'words' and ideas.

Socialism is equal to Communism, again through years of NewSpeak programing.

1984 was not a warning, it was a blue print for the future.... we are living that future now.
<---<< >>--->

[SIZE=4]I told you I had the body of a 25 year old....

[Image: 57929.jpg?v=1]
[/SIZE]
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#20
Bowyn Aerrow Wrote:Socialism is equal to Communism, again through years of NewSpeak programing.

I am not sure who I think less of American politicians saying there isn't a difference between the two, or American voters believing them.


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Fred

Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans.
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