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Is it wrong to demonize "Rosary Rattlers" as they are sworn enemies of GLBT?
nullnaught Wrote:I'm sorry you are thinking that. I can't imagine how you got there from here, because there is nothing covert about the way the Church has been and continues to be killing us first. There is no question, until this post, of weather the Church has been killing us that I have seen. Did I miss it? Seriously, perhaps I did.
In any event, where in the world are you comming from. Do you seriously entertain any thought but that the church wants us dead? Have you listened to how they interpret the bible? They wrote the killing book, we wish to burn it.

I kept "kill" in there as i was stating the Nazi counterpart to your argument.
I really should of said this:

Quote:Bit like "Group X is covertly destroying us, we must destroy X first!"
Apologies.

I don't think the Church wants us dead.
As they did eventually stop killing gay people, and i don't think they were forced to stop by any group either.
I think that's a change for the better to be honest, and the GLBT attacking the Catholic church is only going to make them want to regress.
Silly Sarcastic So-and-so
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nullnaught Wrote:What are you talking about "back to us?" Are you completely unaware that they started killing us first? A long time ago? They still incite it everywhere they can? they hate us for no reason. I think us destroying them is self defense and not unjustified. What would be unjustified would be to not sit around and use every legal means at our disposal to destroy them.

While yes, we should use legal means to stop their hate from damaging equality.
We can't just rip that hatred out of people.
Nor can we outlaw that hatred unless it is directly causing damage to peoples rights.

We need to change the followers of the churches minds about homosexuality, and that takes time. Forcibly silencing their opinions and destroying their church will only make them hate us more.
Silly Sarcastic So-and-so
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Genersis Wrote:While yes, we should use legal means to stop their hate from damaging equality.
We can't just rip that hatred out of people.
Nor can we outlaw that hatred unless it is directly causing damage to peoples rights.

We need to change the followers of the churches minds about homosexuality, and that takes time. Forcibly silencing their opinions and destroying their church will only make them hate us more.

What we could do instead, is take away their tax exemption because they are playing politics and that is a no-no. Then they can spew whatever hate they want. They will be powerless and in disrepute. Which is what we need, if we wish to survive.
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WesHollywood Wrote:Rainbowmum, I am not going to lose any sleep about demonizing Catholics, they do it to us all the time. I am as they say "only a Gentleman when I have to be. I am in the fields of advertising and politics because I am capable, and somewhat proficient at climbing right down into a sewer with anyone to fight it out. I am proud of the skills I am developing, but I am here to win. We are GLBT, these are our lives we are talking about. We must set the stage for the future generations of GLBT.

Who do you want out there fighting for GLBT rights? A bunch of fancy dress ladies and gentlemen talking like utopian intellectuals? Or, street-fighting soldiers? We are in this to win. We need soldiers not pontificators.

Wes ,
You are a great kid, you really are.

Now you may think that the only way to fight a war is by acting like your enemy, but that is not true , you can win one battle at a time, and you do not have to lose your dignity or lower yourself to the underhanded ignorant tactics of your enemy.

I stood shoulder to shoulder, and arm in arm with both my GLBT friends and straight friends as we marched together for decriminalizing being gay.

We all knew the risks , we read the papers and watched and listened to the media, as they where reporting that Archbishops and Cardinals were threatening us with excommunication,some employers were threatening our jobs, and as we marched arm in arm, losing our religion and the respect of many, we kept in mind all the gay bashing's some resulting in death, that the police did nothing about.

Back then it was not about marriage rights , it was about human rights.
I hope you can understand the severity of the situation that we had here.

No ! I am not after your sympathy ,nor do I expect a thank you, we did what we had to do and I for one do not regret any of it.

I hope when you reach my age of 47 ,you can hold your head high and have no regrets.

Perhaps to you, what we achieved peacefully in 1984 after years of marching, may not mean much, but to us it was a victory, and as we stood there at the end of the battle, we knew that we were a part of history.

We won that war , without blood shed , without loss of dignity and most importantly with out resorting to the low tactics of our enemy.

Did the church welcome us back to the fold after the dust settled?
Of course it did.
Would it have welcomed us back if we had of acted in violence and with force?
Probably not .
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I think it is wrong to demonize them. By doing that, we're doing to them what they already do to us. Why not be the bigger 'man' and just lead by example. Their opinions aren't going change anytime soon, if ever, so give them enough thought to even wonder whether we should demonize them or not?
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Yeah the good old days. :biggrin:

While the kids today are crying because they can't marry, we did in fact fight to stay free.

Maybe that is why I am so 'blah' about the gay marriage thing. We had it harder, had to fight to keep our jobs and stay out of jail and walked 20 miles uphill both ways to school in snow over our heads..... :tongue:

The way I see it Gay Marriage in the future will happen - its not a matter of 'IF' anymore, just a simple matter of When....


Rainbowmum Wrote:Wes ,
You are a great kid, you really are.

Now you may think that the only way to fight a war is by acting like your enemy, but that is not true , you can win one battle at a time, and you do not have to lose your dignity or lower yourself to the underhanded ignorant tactics of your enemy.

I stood shoulder to shoulder, and arm in arm with both my GLBT friends and straight friends as we marched together for decriminalizing being gay.

We all knew the risks , we read the papers and watched and listened to the media, as they where reporting that Archbishops and Cardinals were threatening us with excommunication,some employers were threatening our jobs, and as we marched arm in arm, losing our religion and the respect of many, we kept in mind all the gay bashing's some resulting in death, that the police did nothing about.

Back then it was not about marriage rights , it was about human rights.
I hope you can understand the severity of the situation that we had here.

No ! I am not after your sympathy ,nor do I expect a thank you, we did what we had to do and I for one do not regret any of it.

I hope when you reach my age of 47 ,you can hold your head high and have no regrets.

Perhaps to you, what we achieved peacefully in 1984 after years of marching, may not mean much, but to us it was a victory, and as we stood there at the end of the battle, we knew that we were a part of history.

We won that war , without blood shed , without loss of dignity and most importantly with out resorting to the low tactics of our enemy.

Did the church welcome us back to the fold after the dust settled?
Of course it did.
Would it have welcomed us back if we had of acted in violence and with force?
Probably not .
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Live and let live..... where the millions of old people should go on sunday morning when the churches are closed. :biggrin:

There is no Must to elect this believing, The catholic Believing is just 2000 years old.... My Pagan believing is - in his roots - more than 5000 years old.... so you have only wait 3000 years and the catholic believing is free from hate, free from paternalism, free from gender discrimination and so on. Wink
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I don't think we need to "demonize" anyone.

Some of Jesus' followers do enough to demonize themselves, they don't need our help.

As for "destroying" the Catholic Church........really? I thought this country was founded with the belief of Freedom of Religion. So if we destroy the Catholic Church, not only will we still be called "Deviants" but then you can add "UnAmerican" to it.

People do not have the right to restrict our rights in any way, nor do we have the right to restrict theirs. We have the right to fight back politically, but not to remove the Catholic religion from the country, and let's be honest, that will never happen anyway.

How about taking some of that energy and using it to the benefit of the GLBTI community? Join the HRC, the GMHC, offer your time at a gay youth group, or get a group of gay friends to give their time at a soup kitchen or battered women's shelter.

Violence is never an answer. However, the more positive things we do as a group, the friendlier and more giving we are, makes it that much harder for "them" to consistently paint us in a negative light.
[Image: 51806835273_f5b3daba19_t.jpg]  <<< It's mine!
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Thibideau Wrote:Standing in spite of them, not losing resolve or spirit proves otherwise. We as a community need to understand we have nothing to prove to them or anyone, even ourselves. It'll proves we're past right and wrong good and evil and just are. Not even god him/herself can stand in the way of that.
back to the closet
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See demonizing or trying to destroy the church isn't exactly a plausible effort, and in trying do to such you are stooping down to they're level and doing exactly what you claim to hate. Freedom of speech freedom of religion impeding on any of these is wrong and exactly what we are fighting for in the first place freedom.
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