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Last nights debate/ Gays in the Military
#1
Any of you watch that fiasco?

The thing that freaks me out about conservatives is how they always use the same old explanations for everything. They never seem to move forward...or..(gasp) progress.

Asked about Americas "don't ask don't tell" policy, we were gien the same old answers they uses for blacks and women. The troops won't be able to work as a unit, it will destroy moral, the soldiers won't share the same values. One even went on to say even though it works everywhere else in the world, Americas moral values are evidentiley stronger than other countries....

The big joke with this thinking is that:
A. It's been proven wrong and totally unfounded with Blacks and Women
B. Unlike blacks and women, gays have always been in the military right alongside heterosexual soldiers.

Why no interacial marraige? Why can't women vote or work in an office? Why can't minorities or women be soldiers? Why can't we allow gays to do anything??!! Always the same old, backwards, disproven dogma trotted out. Those poor, simple, moral heterosexuals can't handle the pressure. Suicide bombers, chemical weapons, roadside bombs, yes. Gay brothers in arms? Eeeeeeeeeeeek, run away!

Don't they feel ignorant and embarrassed saying things like this? Why not defend the flat earth theory while they're at it?

It reminds me when people going on about all our "tax money" going to gay causes. Like gays aren't tax payers. Our soldiers won't be able to handle it. Which ones are those? All the gay soldiers that are already serving by the thousands? Oops, they are not really soldiers.

Amazing that you can be a decorated, superbe soldier in the closet, but if someone finds out you're gay you become a useless detriment to your country.

What they're really saying is that the English, the Canadians, the Germans, French, Isreali, Spanish, on and on......, soldiers are a stronger lot than the American.

God I hate ignorance!:mad:
#2
What makes me laugh is this whole two-tier mentality that such a stance generates ...

How can you possibly uphold a system whereby gay individuals have the right to vote, to bear arms (in their own homes), to join the emergency services, ok not to give blood Wink, but to do all these other very important and significant things - i.e. painting the impression that we are on an almost equal footing with so-called "normal" people, and then have the audacity to level against us that the defence of the nation is not something we should be able to participate in (or, more accurately, that you should be allowed to participate in it, as long as you maintain the façade of normalcy). ARE we a part of society ? Or ARE we just bystanders who's presence is tolerated, but nothing more ...

WHAT IS NORMAL ANYWAY ?? Surely normal is people living their lives as they please, in peace and harmony ? And AS I've said before, the increased strength from fighting side-by-side with a man you would die for BECAUSE YOU LOVE HIM would only make the US Army - one of the strongest fighting forces on Planet Earth - even stronger, and that is a fact.

... but some people just won't listen to reason ...

*sigh*

!?!?! Shadow !?!?!
#3
Please let's not forget that the Clinton family was all too happy to sign the Don't ask Don't tell bill to cover Bill's false promise of equality in the armed forces so gays would vote for him!

I missed the debate - has anyone seen a transcript of it or anything - would love to read it!
#4
Didn't actually see the deabate and am discovering this thread a bit late, but hey it's an issue that affects me personally so I'll weigh in.

Its a nonsense policy that's a leftover from the bad old days.

However, the Army is the type of organization that is resistant to change of any kind, even changes for the better. It's not the wisest way to run things but its how things are for better or for worse. I'm not the only guy in the US Army that is not open about my sexuality by a long shot, and I know for a fact that guys in units I've been in have been gay because they told me so, and the two guys I'm talking about were both outstanding soldiers who had a lot of potential as leaders but were both unnerved by the climate in the Army and as a result got out. Its a bad situation that's not going to be solved until our society as a whole comes around. The US Army is a really accurate miccrocosm of attitudes of the lager American society, and always has been.

There is hope for the future though. Recently there's been a lot of press about a US Army medic who came out to his chain of command and there were no consequences. There are some forward thinking people in the Army, its just going to take a while for them to get enough influence and momentum for there to be large scale change.
#5
ardus Wrote:Didn't actually see the deabate and am discovering this thread a bit late, but hey it's an issue that affects me personally so I'll weigh in. ....

Does anyone have news of Ardus???
#6
princealbertofb Wrote:Does anyone have news of Ardus???

A couple weeks ago someone here suggested emailing him & I did. I got a reply really quickly and he was just getting settled in & seemed fine.

I havent heard from him since.

This was the posted addy: arduskraven@hotmail.com
#7
fjp999 Wrote:A couple weeks ago someone here suggested emailing him & I did. I got a reply really quickly and he was just getting settled in & seemed fine.

I havent heard from him since.

This was the posted addy: arduskraven@hotmail.com
Thanks, Frank. It's nice to be reminded that some of us don't have easy access to the Internet anymore.

Talking of which, Spotysocks is ok but thinking of a career change, so he might not reappear on this site after his difficulties with logging back in. (Don't know what happened there).
#8
princealbertofb Wrote:Talking of which, Spotysocks is ok but thinking of a career change, so he might not reappear on this site after his difficulties with logging back in. (Don't know what happened there).

That is sad :frown:

Come back Spotysocks
#9
Michael Wrote:Any of you watch that fiasco?


I hope you don't mind me butting in but I found this today and thought it was apt.......

"The U.S. military spends about $30 million a year hunting down and expelling homosexuals from its ranks, in a clear and open defiance of the "don't ask, don't tell, don't pursue" law, even though its own studies, from the 1950's to the present, have shown time and time again that they do not represent the threat to "unit cohesion" that is the reason usually given for expelling them.2
In spite of the military's insistence that unit cohesion is a problem, the fact remains that during times of war, expelling homosexuals from the ranks goes way down (and was practically halted during the Gulf War), when unit cohesion is actually of greatest importance. If unit cohesion were really the motivator, why do they quit expelling that 'threat' when the need for cohesion is greatest? No one at the Pentagon has ever answered that question. The answer is obvious to any thinking person: it's institutionalized homophobia. And this is a case where homophobia directly costs the taxpayers $30 million each and every year it is allowed to govern military policy. And that doesn't count the cost in thousands of destroyed lives caused by the illegally issued general discharges that sully the reputations of these honorable men and women".
#10
Star Twister Wrote: I hope you don't mind me butting in but I found this today and thought it was apt.......

"The U.S. military spends about $30 million a year hunting down and expelling homosexuals from its ranks, in a clear and open defiance of the "don't ask, don't tell, don't pursue" law, even though its own studies, from the 1950's to the present, have shown time and time again that they do not represent the threat to "unit cohesion" that is the reason usually given for expelling them.2
In spite of the military's insistence that unit cohesion is a problem, the fact remains that during times of war, expelling homosexuals from the ranks goes way down (and was practically halted during the Gulf War), when unit cohesion is actually of greatest importance. If unit cohesion were really the motivator, why do they quit expelling that 'threat' when the need for cohesion is greatest? No one at the Pentagon has ever answered that question. The answer is obvious to any thinking person: it's institutionalized homophobia. And this is a case where homophobia directly costs the taxpayers $30 million each and every year it is allowed to govern military policy. And that doesn't count the cost in thousands of destroyed lives caused by the illegally issued general discharges that sully the reputations of these honorable men and women".


I have personally heard of people actually getting a blank marriage just not to be persecuted in the American army... but, ok that was a few years ago. Still, it shows that people did not feel safe for others to know or suspect that they were gay.


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