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What's the appeal of going to church?
#21
OrphanPip Wrote:Nonsense, plenty of Jewish people are tolerant of gay people.
Not the 99%
-Take your boy friend to church and hold hands, see where / what it gets you.
-Most gay church going people are not out. We should have a pride gay couples go to church Sunday.

OrphanPip Wrote:Neither is gay identity somehow going to supplant someone's ethnic and cultural identity.
Like it or not ethnic and cultural identity is dissipated after the 2.5th generation in the developing world. Ethnic cultural identity is a vestige of the past. Just hoping for that initial gay identity to get them through life.

OrphanPip Wrote:who are we to dictate that they can't find support in a community they grew up in.
Any closed community, usually due to low economic advantage and or ineffective education, will not have significant social exposure. the gay population is more prone to clinical depression. If this wernt the case than I would say follow the straight guiding light, but it statistically is happening today.
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#22
When I think of my identity "Liberal" usually tops the list...before gay....and I get alot more crap for being Liberal than I ever have for being gay but I do get that since I grew up in the SF Bay Area I had better odds.....

The reason I bring this up......alot of the reactions of the churches depends on whether they are Liberal or Conservative.....

When we had Propostion 8 here in California...while there were many openly hostile religious groups working hard to insure that gay marraige never happens (Mormons/Catholics/Baptists)..there were also the less heard LIBERAL chuches that supported us...mostly Methodist and Presbyterian and Lutheran and Episcopal....here in Silicon Valley they took out an ad supporting gay marraige...

Same sex couples holding hands in church amongst LIBERAL religious people...no problem...so maybe it is really a liberal/conservative issue after all.
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#23
Here it is...the original AD from the Santa Clara Valley Council of Churches

As people of faith,
We believe that all people are made in the image of God.
We believe in loving, faithful and committed relationships.
We affirm everyone's right to the freedom to marry.
We urge you to..
VOTE NO ON PROPOSITION 8.
Don't eliminate marriage for anyone.


Following Jesus' call for justice and compassion, this ad is sponsored by the Council of Churches of Santa Clara County Committee Against Proposition 8 and 23 congregations:

Almaden Hills United Methodist Church, San Jose
Alum Rock United Methodist Church, San Jose
Campbell United Church of Christ Council
Campbell United Methodist Church
Celebration Of Faith Church, San Jose
Center for Spiritual Living, San Jose
College Heights United Church of Christ, San Mateo
First Christian Church, San Jose
First Congregational Church of Palo Alto, Peace & Justice Task Force
First Congregational Church of San Jose, United Church of Christ
First Presbyterian Church of Palo Alto
First United Methodist Church of Palo Alto
First Unitarian Church of San Jose
Grace Baptist Church, San Jose
Holy Redeemer Lutheran Church of San Jose
Metropolitan Community Church of San Jose
Morgan Hill United Methodist Church
New Community of Faith, San Jose (U.C.C. & American Baptist)
St. Jude's Episcopal Church, Social Justice/Outreach Committee,Cupertino
St. Mark’s Episcopal Church, Santa Clara
St. Paul’s United Methodist Church, San Jose
St. Thomas Episcopal Church, Sunnyvale
Stone Church of Willow Glen (Presbyterian), San Jose
Trinity Episcopal Cathedral, San Jose
Unitarian Universalist Church of Palo Alto Board

Of course when you move up and down the SF Bay Area from Monterey and Santa Cruz to Santa Rosa and of course San Francisco you will find ALOT more churches who also support gay marriage...but not conservative ones.

The list of US Senators who support Gay Marriage is similar...ALL LIBERALS!

1.Richard Blumenthal[71] (D–Connecticut)
2.Barbara Boxer[72] (D–California)
3.Sherrod Brown[73] (D–Ohio)
4.Maria Cantwell[74] (D–Washington)
5.Chris Coons[75] (D–Delaware)
6.Dianne Feinstein[76] (D–California)
7.Al Franken[77] (D–Minnesota)
8.Kirsten Gillibrand[78] (D–New York)
9.Tom Harkin[79] (D–Iowa)
10.John Kerry[68] (D–Massachusetts)
11.Frank Lautenberg[80] (D–New Jersey)
12.Patrick Leahy[81] (D–Vermont)
13.Jeff Merkley[82] (D–Oregon)
14.Bernie Sanders[83] (I–Vermont)
15.Chuck Schumer[84] (D–New York)
16.Jeanne Shaheen[53] (D–New Hampshire)
17.Sheldon Whitehouse[85] (D–Rhode Island)
18.Ron Wyden[86] (D–Oregon)
19.Mark Udall[87] (D–Colorado)
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#24
East Wrote:I grew up in the SF Bay Area I had better odds ...
Its a tiny world. The ethnic identity in most cases is un healthy mentally and clinically. Fag food is much more low in fat.

East Wrote:here in Silicon Valley they took out an ad supporting gay marriage ...I think there were maybe 30-40 individual churches listed in the ad.
Explore your options everyone and pick what works. Unless you are looking for a hobby project, you are really the lazy gay to pick an established faith system and suppose it will do as much for you as the next. You can try to effect change at the church where you go but for me more of a project than most people have patience for.
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#25
pellaz Wrote:bring your boy friend to church and hold handsWink

Unfortunately, I'm currently single.

If I weren't and my boyfriend were of the same religion and we went to services together, I don't see us holding hands as that isn't the focus of a Jewish service.

It's very different than Christian church culture. The entire point of the Jewish service is prayer. Communal prayer. The entirety of the service is just that, prayer. If there is a sermon, it is after the praying is done and is usually just a quick 5-10 minute blurb about the weekly portion.

So why would I hold hands with my significant other in a place where my focus should be on higher things?

Besides, as others have pointed out, Jewish services aren't so much about making sermons as they are about the community. It's the sole reason we have synagogues. To pray together and to discuss events in the community. They were developed as a place for communities to commune in times and places where Jews were not welcome.





pellaz Wrote:Not the 99%

Statistically, Jews are generally accepting of gays and are pro gay rights. Proportionally, they are more pro-gay rights than other religious cultures.
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#26
WalkingParadox Wrote:Statistically, Jews are generally accepting of gays and are pro gay rights. Proportionally, they are more pro-gay rights than other religious cultures.

True...but again I think it is the division between Liberals and Conservatives. Liberal Jewish people are usually overwhelmingly supportive of Gay Marriage and Equality.
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#27
WalkingParadox Wrote:I'm currently single.
If I weren't and my boyfriend were of the same religion and we went to services together, I don't see us holding hands as that isn't the focus of a Jewish service.

cant hold hands well than wear something like this
[Image: 17BCD328.jpg]

Easy to sit through any organized religious ceremony as a closeted gay man. If they knew; 33% would see you in hell, 66% would laughRofl 1% would think boyfriend materialLuxlove
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#28
pellaz Wrote:cant hold hands well than wear something like this
[Image: 17BCD328.jpg]

Easy to sit through any organized religious ceremony as a closeted gay man. If they knew; 33% would see you in hell, 66% would laughRofl 1% would think boyfriend materialLuxlove

Jews do not believe in Hell. They do not believe that a person's soul goes to some place of flames and eternal torture. That is a 'new testament' notion - but not really biblical at all since Hell is the grave, Sheol, Hades, all of this OT is 'the grave'.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_Jews_believe_in_hell Has a nice summery of the whole Jewish After Life....
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#29
Bowyn Aerrow Wrote:Jews do not believe in Hell ... http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_Jews_believe_in_hell Has a nice summery of the whole Jewish After Life....

oops about the hell thingyFlame2 its over stated anyways and i dont believe in it either.
serious; i tried to keep it generic to all faiths, not just Jewish.
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#30
pellaz Wrote:oops about the hell thingyFlame2 its over stated anyways and i dont believe in it either.
serious; i tried to keep it generic to all faiths, not just Jewish.

I feel ya.
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