10-14-2013, 12:09 AM
While I can concede some points, IE much of what you said about the two way street and some youth obviously wanting to be with adults, I take exception to the example of the historical commonality of young brides.
It is true that throughout history the practice of marrying off young teenage girls to older, and hopefully wealthier men was common, accepted, and viewed as proper. However, I seriously doubt that all of those girls got what THEY wanted. Maybe for a select few they actually wanted to be with the older man, but it is extremely likely that a lot of girls were basically trapped by circumstances into a lifelong relationship that they did not want, couldn't escape, and did not find fulfilling in any way.
As for pedarasty it too had historical significance, but just because certain ancient cultures viewed it as OK doesn't mean that they were right and we should follow their lead. Ancient people also thought that the world was flat, practiced human sacrifice in some cases, castrated boys to preserve their singing voice, etc ad infinitum. There have been times and places where female circumcision was considered right and proper because women should not be able to derive pleasure from sexual contact. In some places it is still practiced.
Pedarasty was practiced in a certain time and place under a drastically different set of circumstances than the world of today. We're talking about city states that literally needed every able bodied man to be trained as a soldier, with absolute discipline, just in order to ensure the survival of the city in the event of an invading army. Under those circumstances young boys were taken from their mothers and fathers and given to a soldier as what amounts to an apprentice and master type relationship. The soldiers were usually younger and unmarried, and thus quite segregated from the female population. Without the use of a woman, the soldiers used what was at hand for their needs, with the added bonus of enforcing submission. Actual intercourse was viewed as reprehensible, showing that even as they practiced pedarasty these cultures recognized that there was a boundary.
My point is, you cannot use history to condone acts based on the fact that other cultures practiced and condoned those acts. The fact that other people in another time and place did things a certain way doesn't mean that their actions weren't at times barbaric.
To put it another way, what is wrong with child trafficking, pedophilia, and many of the other things that are under discussion, at least in my view, is that it takes away the younger person's right to decide their own fate, or an older person with all of the power forces or coerces a younger person to do something they would not have chosen freely, or at the very least we're allowing a young person to make a potentially unwise and potentially very damaging decision before they have the tools to make it in a mature way.
I resent anyone claiming that my argument here is in any way applicable or parallel with homosexuality. My points are not about community standards of what is sinful. My point is that every person has a right to decide their own fate without more powerful individuals using them for their own means. Pedarasty was practiced under conditions of open warfare and servitude. Child brides were generally not given any choice in whether or not they wanted to marry. A child being seduced by an older adult is being victimized. A child who seeks out an adult for a sexual relationship is getting in over their heads and doesn't understand the ramifications of what they are doing. These various situations share the same family of flaws.
It is true that throughout history the practice of marrying off young teenage girls to older, and hopefully wealthier men was common, accepted, and viewed as proper. However, I seriously doubt that all of those girls got what THEY wanted. Maybe for a select few they actually wanted to be with the older man, but it is extremely likely that a lot of girls were basically trapped by circumstances into a lifelong relationship that they did not want, couldn't escape, and did not find fulfilling in any way.
As for pedarasty it too had historical significance, but just because certain ancient cultures viewed it as OK doesn't mean that they were right and we should follow their lead. Ancient people also thought that the world was flat, practiced human sacrifice in some cases, castrated boys to preserve their singing voice, etc ad infinitum. There have been times and places where female circumcision was considered right and proper because women should not be able to derive pleasure from sexual contact. In some places it is still practiced.
Pedarasty was practiced in a certain time and place under a drastically different set of circumstances than the world of today. We're talking about city states that literally needed every able bodied man to be trained as a soldier, with absolute discipline, just in order to ensure the survival of the city in the event of an invading army. Under those circumstances young boys were taken from their mothers and fathers and given to a soldier as what amounts to an apprentice and master type relationship. The soldiers were usually younger and unmarried, and thus quite segregated from the female population. Without the use of a woman, the soldiers used what was at hand for their needs, with the added bonus of enforcing submission. Actual intercourse was viewed as reprehensible, showing that even as they practiced pedarasty these cultures recognized that there was a boundary.
My point is, you cannot use history to condone acts based on the fact that other cultures practiced and condoned those acts. The fact that other people in another time and place did things a certain way doesn't mean that their actions weren't at times barbaric.
To put it another way, what is wrong with child trafficking, pedophilia, and many of the other things that are under discussion, at least in my view, is that it takes away the younger person's right to decide their own fate, or an older person with all of the power forces or coerces a younger person to do something they would not have chosen freely, or at the very least we're allowing a young person to make a potentially unwise and potentially very damaging decision before they have the tools to make it in a mature way.
I resent anyone claiming that my argument here is in any way applicable or parallel with homosexuality. My points are not about community standards of what is sinful. My point is that every person has a right to decide their own fate without more powerful individuals using them for their own means. Pedarasty was practiced under conditions of open warfare and servitude. Child brides were generally not given any choice in whether or not they wanted to marry. A child being seduced by an older adult is being victimized. A child who seeks out an adult for a sexual relationship is getting in over their heads and doesn't understand the ramifications of what they are doing. These various situations share the same family of flaws.
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