Bully-cide and Justice.

[Genersis]

I had a lot of respect for you until I read this. Nice work, give people a Label, or a disease to hide behind and justify the unjustifiable.

Violence is not an illness. So now we can stop blaming murders who murder, rapists who rape, woman beaters for beating women because they have an illness????

Come on, that is the worst possible load of bullshit that could fall from an intelligent mans mouth.

Bullying is abuse, subduing a victim into submission for their own personal gain....just like rapists, spousal abusers etc.

People who take their life because of bullying are normally bullied by many individuals, all to different extents.
That's nothing like murder, rape or even most cases of abuse. They do all contain violence, and have similar causes, but the blame is much harder to place.
It's an individual(the victim) being socially rejected by a whole group of people(the class); some(the bullies) abuse the individual because of the individuals lower status to make up for their own insecurities.

Do we send them all to prison? They all ignored it and allowed it to happen after all.
Or just the abusers? How badly must they of picked on the victim to be considered one of the responsible for the persons death?

Should we really remove them from school, ruin their chance of any further education, and therefore possibly force them into lives of crime or poverty?

Violence isn't an illness. But like a symptom, it's the sign of a deeper problem.
People are never violent for the sake of being violent.
Just like people don't cry for the sake of crying.
It's a sign of anger, fear, sadness all stemming from problems elsewhere.

I'm not completely against punishment, even though it could make the problem worse, especially if it is as severe as legal action and prison sentences.
There's just got to be a solution to this problem, not just punishment for it's symptoms...

[sweetforsame]

I was torn apart by the death of the college guy tyler clementi and by his death and my own experience i have been inspired to writing the novel i am currently on. my novel called "Love Conquers" is about two gay guys right now at the age of 16 but this is the first in a series and i plant o go all the way to college years. basically its about the everyday struggles of a gay man with his family but these boys have a more bigger situation as they are interracial and family will never accept that and further more when they do come out they get bullied and one gets bashed at school. the point of the series is that love conquers and in the end the boys are the winners because the stuff they went through makes them stronger and they are happy and in love. watch my video to hear more but i need your stories guys and girls. anyone who helps will have their name published int he credits section of the book if they so choose. it wont allow me to post my email just yet or my youtube link but please if you want to help reply to this post and leave me a way to contact you.

[dfiant]

Yes it's a complex problem, yes in many cases there are multiple offenders that can make it difficult to identify who tips the victim over the edge.

All this pussy footing around with 'it's too hard' is bullshit and serves to do nothing but empower the bullies because they are getting the message that there is no problem with bullying, and even if there is a problem what is the world going to do about it?

When it comes to choosing between saving a life of someone who is bullied to suicide and throwing the wrong person into prison...I would choose saving a life every single day of the week.

Get tough, prosecute and make bullying a hate crime.

Simple solution to a 'complex' (What a cop out) problem.

[zeon]

hello,
Bullying ofd any form in my eyes is assult... Assualt is pain regardless of physical or verbal however the authorities should have acted as well and took matters into hands as suicide is never an answer... People bully because they are weak and try to crumble those around them they regard as weak... An example I was bullied by people in school as i was seen as weak with a stutter but to be honest they saw me as a threat and someone greater than them and its paid off to be honest as i have my own mortghaged home and them..... council studio flats.... wow thats something worth writing home about!

Make bullying a crime

[Genersis]

Yes it's a complex problem, yes in many cases there are multiple offenders that can make it difficult to identify who tips the victim over the edge.

All this pussy footing around with 'it's too hard' is bullshit and serves to do nothing but empower the bullies because they are getting the message that there is no problem with bullying, and even if there is a problem what is the world going to do about it?

When it comes to choosing between saving a life of someone who is bullied to suicide and throwing the wrong person into prison...I would choose saving a life every single day of the week.

Get tough, prosecute and make bullying a hate crime.

Simple solution to a 'complex' (What a cop out) problem.

Well if you believe the "punishment" and the "solution" to be the same thing that's fine i guess.

I believe bullies need to be punished AND reformed, they need to learn to treat people like people.
I don't think prison or enraged parents are going to help.

Also, i thought we're talking of when the bully-cide has already occurred?
Personally, i wouldn't put a person in prison that could be innocent and just hope i got the right one. Especially if a life is in the balance.

[princealbertofb]

Interesting thread, Daz, I need to get to the bottom of these ideas.

[Pix]

Here in the USA, jocks get special treatment, and all too many of them take advantage of that, including in bullying others who are different (something I think many principals secretly approve of). This would actually be a problem if bullying behavior was criminalized because it would often be used against those who defended themselves against bullies (while ignoring the jocks when they were "goofing around").

Now cancel the athletics program over reports of bullying by jocks (the problem is that such reporting is either anonymous and thus questionable or it's the accuser is known and thus open to all kinds of retaliation, including by the community at large), THAT would send a message that would be heard loud and clear. But schools wouldn't be the only ones howling about it, so would parents and politicians. I don't know if it would be possible to institute this, but if it was instituted then I'm certain it would make a difference for the better.

But just remember Penn State, when there was talk of canceling the season and firing those who maintained their secrecy, there was howling about how it was unfair to punish the innocent by not letting the jocks play and even how "traumatizing" it would be to cancel things like Senior Day (as if the trauma of the young boys molested in a conspiracy of silence was nowhere as important as that). And if they howl over punishing coaches and the sports over little boys being molested, I imagine people will howl all that much louder when all too many who don't think bullying is a big deal (especially if the victim is gay, supposed slut, Wiccan, goth, etc) hear their team won't be playing because of bullied kids.

At least in the USA, sports is king (practically worshipped), and while many say academics are more important than sports in school, in reality parents and the like will get more upset if their teams (especially if their kids are on it) do poorly than if their school is one of the worst in the nation academically. I understand that the bulk of the budget actually spent on classes in school go to sports and related events. And I've heard all too many times of how jocks not only get away with obnoxious and bullying behavior but are given "byes" and "passes" so that a failing jock will have his/her grade upgraded to stay on the team under the rationalization that jocks don't have as much time to study as everyone else so should be given a break and (when there's more candor) it would mess with the team to expel a player the team has been training with (especially if s/he is good).

In any case, IF this could be instituted then schools and the community would stop bullying by jocks even more than they stop it by other cliques that try bullying...but they'd do everything in their power to circumvent it and overturn it, and I just don't think it could get the popular support it would need to pass.

[dfiant]

enraged parents are going to help

That ALSO would be bullying

I don't think prison

If it fits the crime then yes, pushing someone to suicide is as horrific as rape, manslaughter and murder, so why not prison?

I believe bullies need to be punished AND reformed, they need to learn to treat people like people.

That would definately be an achievable goal in a majority of cases.

[Genersis]

That ALSO would be bullying

The full sentence you took my quote from conveys the opposite meaning.

If it fits the crime then yes, pushing someone to suicide is as horrific as rape, manslaughter and murder, so why not prison?

I guess, if it was the actions of one person either though one big incident or repeated incidences.
But normally it's a combinations of factors combined with multiple people bullying the victim.
The reason i believe prison is a stupid punishment is because, from what little i hear, it has a habit of making people worse behaviour wise than before they entered.
Picking up bad habits and a resentment for society.

That would definately be an achievable goal in a majority of cases.

Yeah, but i'd preferably like it without prison being the punishment.

Just a question to make sure i'm gauging you right; are you suggesting legal action against all bullying, or only bullying resulting in suicide of the victim?

[Person66]

If we only punish bullies who's victims commit suicide, then the message we send to victims of bullying is, your tormentor will only be dealt with if you kill yourself. That could very well result in a lot more suicide.

You can be for bullying to be made a serious crime and be for prison reform at the same time

What Pix said is 100% true in America, especially in the south, Midwest, middle America and small towns everywhere.