Trayvon Martin case

[Inchante]

I do not feel sorry for him because he has not gotten a fair trial or has been unfairly prejudiced, because that's exactly what he did to Trayvon. At least he gets to live, we can't say the same for Trayvon, can we?

Yes, I suppose I am a bit old fashioned in my newfangledness. The whole "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" thing is now retro, suddenly back in fashion after several centuries of "enlightened thought", which told us that "eye for an eye makes the whole world blind".

He shouldn't have even did what he did in the first place.

Perhaps, probablytrue, but neither you nor I were there when it happened.

And ofcourse the Black community would jump up and make an uproar, wouldn't you if you were black or if your race was put through the same history and even current plight that blacks have gone through and are going through now?

It's easy to speak from the outside, but when your on the inside, it's completely different. And I'm not even considered black by most, but I grew up "black" so I know what the mindset is like.

Nope, nope, never. Never would I convict a man in my own mind or in the public eye before I had heard and new all facts available in the argument. Haven't you seen me arguing with people on here constantly about the need to negotiate between the balance of rights for the religious and for the GLBT community. Haven't I argued against laws that, though they might benefit me personally as a gay man, they would impinge on another man's right to free speech or a fare trial. I am afraid that I am a Liberal through and through, and that is what colors my perspective on any issue that affects my rights or the rights of others. That is what I am passionate about, far more than any group affiliation. And, do not think that because I am white I have not been discrimated against . . . and not just for me sexuality but also because of the color of my skin.

Even still, no matter what colour anyone is, people shouldn't be killing each other based on looks or their "suspicious-ness" or at all for that matter.

Do you know for a fact that the man was not acting in self defense or not acting in what he thought was self defense? You can listen to the calls, they were wrestling before the gun was fired. This is my point. There is too much to this case, too much that is in doubt for anyone to say. The fact that the media and many people in the public have already convicted this man is the problem.

[Inchante]

Funny thing is you come across as so high and mighty and full of self importance and well rounded and intelligent that you think that shooting down EVERYONE who has a differing opinion or idea to you ACTUALLY gives a shit about you and your assinine comments

Have a nice day

It is hard to tell if you "give a shit" about my comments, as you always feel the need to respond to me and insult me, but you are always responding to and insulting me for things I did not say in the fist place. This seems to indicate that you are very conflicted when it comes to "giving a shit" about my comments.

[zeon]

i think killings is something that shouldnt happen however if it wasnt ment to happen then why do animals kill each other?? I know most do it for food whereas i think we do it for power... I feel sorry for people who are killed however i feel even more sorry for people who carry weapons as their own insecurities cause them to behave in a manner which the death penalty should be bought to deal with

[Sylph]

Yes, I suppose I am a bit old fashioned in my newfangledness. The whole "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" thing is now retro, suddenly back in fashion after several centuries of "enlightened thought", which told us that "eye for an eye makes the whole world blind".



Perhaps, probablytrue, but neither you nor I were there when it happened.



Nope, nope, never. Never would I convict a man in my own mind or in the public eye before I had heard and new all facts available in the argument. Haven't you seen me arguing with people on here constantly about the need to negotiate between the balance of rights for the religious and for the GLBT community. Haven't I argued against laws that, though they might benefit me personally as a gay man, they would impinge on another man's right to free speech or a fare trial. I am afraid that I am a Liberal through and through, and that is what colors my perspective on any issue that affects my rights or the rights of others. That is what I am passionate about, far more than any group affiliation. And, do not think that because I am white I have not been discrimated against . . . and not just for me sexuality but also because of the color of my skin.



Do you know for a fact that the man was not acting in self defense or not acting in what he thought was self defense? You can listen to the calls, they were wrestling before the gun was fired. This is my point. There is too much to this case, too much that is in doubt for anyone to say. The fact that the media and many people in the public have already convicted this man is the problem.

I feel like you've twisted what I've said somewhat. You've taken out important issues I brought up and flipped the script on the rest.

If I were to say what I'm really thinking/feeling, you and probably alot of other people wouldn't like it, but I say this with respect;

You are blinded by your intelligence. I was the high school nerd, incapable of anything less then an A+ and a near perfect GPA, and with it a lack of empathy and emotion.

Though I quite enjoy your intelligence and respect your beliefs, I think you are so intelligent, that it's blocked out your emotions.

People used to tell me I was a robot, because I refused to open my eyes to emotions and feelings.

I now am more emotionally motivated, and can feel, rather than rationalize and make sense of something that has nothing to do with rationale or any sense for that matter. For the black community it's more of a feeling issue, rather than a thinking issue.

It's like taking a punch to the gut, because black people are united by their history and common injustice and to lose someone based on something that could happen to them, is a scary and oppresive issue.

Why did he have to chase Trayvon, when the dispatcher told him not to? To become a hero? What is the rationalization behind that?

Put yourself in Trayvon's shoes, put yourself in the shoes of anyone is distress and then try to rationalize the situation.

No matter the level of your intelligence, you'll never be able to truely "see" the issue at hand without empathy and sympathy. Don't sympathize for someone who took away a young man's life, judged because he looked suspicious and is now ostracized for it.

I don't want to come across as insulting or rude, as honestly, I'm tired of that BS, I've had 18years of it and probably more to come, so don't misconstrew what I'm trying to say.

We all have opinions, they're like assholes right, everyone's got one. We can disagree, we can agree, but at the end of the day, what should unite us is humanity and the inhumanity of this particular event and the grief it has caused the parents and his community.

We should not defend those who choose to slap humanity in the face and take away a person's life, a person who could be you or your friend or one of your family members or even someone you saw down the street yesterday. And all for what? Because you look different or suspicious or just because they want to?

I didn't start this to get into a huge argument, merely to discuss the case and remember Trayvon. I realize we have differing opinions, but I don't think an arguement should be the result of them .

[Sylph]

i think killings is something that shouldnt happen however if it wasnt ment to happen then why do animals kill each other?? I know most do it for food whereas i think we do it for power... I feel sorry for people who are killed however i feel even more sorry for people who carry weapons as their own insecurities cause them to behave in a manner which the death penalty should be bought to deal with

I agree, but I don't believe in the Death Penalty .

Humans do it mainly for power, that's very clear.

America Vs Middle East, for what? Oil... resources... Shame really :confused: .

[ceez]

Yes, but this only illustrates how outlandish this whole thing really is. The shooter, George Zimmerman, isn't even white, he is latino.



No witnesses indicate any racist slurs used, nothing in the 911 call indicates that the shooting was racially motivated, and yet the media and many members of the African American community have jumped to the conclusion that it was a racially motivated hate crime (without due process).

It is very sad what happened to the boy. The police should have arrested George Zimmerman and completed a thorough investigation before releasing him. But the injustice that Trayvon Martin experienced has only been matched with a public injustice for George Zimmerman.

actually they picked up a racial slur in the phone call while he was following Trayvon. but whether this was a hate crime or not the main point is Zimmerman had no business getting that close to Trayvon and shooting an unarmed person should never be justifiable, plus I'm pretty sure Trayvon wasn't any where near Zimmerman's property when he was shot especially if Zimmerman left his post to follow Trayvon.

[Inchante]

I feel like you've twisted what I've said somewhat. You've taken out important issues I brought up and flipped the script on the rest.

Though I quite enjoy your intelligence and respect your beliefs, I think you are so intelligent, that it's blocked out your emotions.

We should not defend those who choose to slap humanity in the face and take away a person's life, a person who could be you or your friend or one of your family members or even someone you saw down the street yesterday. And all for what? Because you look different or suspicious or just because they want to?

I guess I am concerned about what you think I have twisted in your statement. If you could elaborate on that, it would be helpful, so that I can either address it or attempt to mitigate such actions in the future.

As far as the reason vs. emotion topic. I understood what you were indicating about the African American communities response stemming from emotion and from a history of discrimination. I used to be very angry and reactionary when it came to issues regarding gay rights. That is why I made the comparison.

I remember discussing Aristotle's thesis on Oratory in my Rhetorical Theory class years ago. Aristotle talks about the three types of appeal: logos, pathos, and ethos--logic, emotion, and--lacking a better term--"expertise". A lot of people in the class outright rejected the value of pathos, saying that it easily confused or could consume an issue. Yet, in its defense, I stated that pathos was often used as a form of argument in the civil rights era to overcome some of the misguided beliefs posited under logos.

Emotion has a very important place, and it certainly has its place in public forums and debates. It is valuable. It should be an aspect of how this trial and others are pursued, but it should never be allowed to subsume reason. When it does, another form of injustice takes its place that does as much harm as the initial injustice. Does that make sense?

That is what I have been talking about. As far as the man pursuing Trayvon and shooting him, as a society it is our duty to see that an investigation and prosecution is pursued. But, it is equally our responsibility--and this is where I certainly cannot agree with you--that George Zimmerman should be defended. He should be given a full defense, as he has a right to a fair trial . . . at least as fair as humanly possible. If he is not given such, the society itself is guilty. No, it is not what Travon Martin received, but as I quoted before "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind". Gandhi was no slouch when it came to arguments based on emotion or reason.

My point, as it has been from the beginning, is that when the media chooses who is guilty for us and before facts can even be heard, there is a great injustice manifesting within the society as a whole.

[Inchante]

actually they picked up a racial slur in the phone call while he was following Trayvon. but whether this was a hate crime or not the main point is Zimmerman had no business getting that close to Trayvon and shooting an unarmed person should never be justifiable, plus I'm pretty sure Trayvon wasn't any where near Zimmerman's property when he was shot especially if Zimmerman left his post to follow Trayvon.

I have heard the recording and have also heard the reports that say there was a racial slur in the recording. The two do not match up in my opinion. Even the media has refused to report anything more than "some people have heard . . . on the recording". You are welcome to listen to it for yourself on youtube. Just keep in mind that the power of suggestion is an uncanny thing.

Here is the recording. The part that is thought to be a racist slur is at around 1:51--

[smithypoo]

Very tragic and my heart goes out to the poor kid (may he rest in peace) and his family.

I am psychic and can read faces/eyes. The Zimmerman guy exudes evil vibes.

I can understand the innocent until proven guilty viewpoint but there are too many anomalies in this case. The fact that he left his own proximity - chased after the unarmed kid (who only had a packet of skittles and some iced tea on his possession - no stolen goods) before shooting him in the head at close range (despite him crying for mercy) makes it pretty clear that he is a cold blooded murderer with no remorse.

In my view he should receive the death penalty so that he doesn't get the chance to do anything like this ever again.

SebbiexXXx

[dfiant]

There is a lot of conflicting reports out there so I think we will have to wait a while before the truth comes out.

BUT common sense tells anyone that a slight 17 year old unarmed teenage boy throwing a punch at an armed 28 year old heifer with a hand gun, heifer using gun against unarmed teen = wrong and unfair.

I hope justice will prevail and Treyvon's family find peace.

I wouldn't go as far as throw the guy in the chair, but definately seems he deserves to be punished.