Me personally, I don't care what others think.
And Indiana is an ultra conservative state.....we get the dirtiest looks sometimes.
Many times at the mall, I have had to cuss people out for yelling 'fag'.
(I have a really deep voice, and when Im loud, I sound way different than I look.)
It really throws people off haha. 
![[-]](https://gayspeak.com/images/duende_v3_local/collapse.png)
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PDA and its potential consequences:
Tthere is a very real threat out there - how big depends on where you live - but, you can live in a city that is gay tolerant and still find any haters.
Kentucky just had its first hate crime under new Hate Crime Legislation, two thugs picked up a gay man, 'propositioned' him, he refused and they ended up bashing him physically. So here we are in the 21st century and a real threat of physical harm still exists.
And this gay fellow was hanging out with two girls, not even holding hands with a guy.
As for the shame, that is because 62,400 repetitions make one truth (Brave New World).
We live in a society that still programs us (LGBT) to believe that we are sick, twisted perverted, going to hell, wrong, broken, deranged, oh this list of negatives is too long to list here.
We are told these things millions of times. Then we have the whole 'are gays allowed to marry or not' question. While it may appear to be a simple 'rights' issue, the reality is that when gay marriage is shot down society is telling us 'Two people of the same gender can't really love'.
That shame, that guilt, those negative feelings is society having programmed their 'truth' into you.
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Bowyn Aerrow Wrote:That shame, that guilt, those negative feelings is society having programmed their 'truth' into you.
Whoa, hang on a sec.
BA you're one of my favorite members and I tremendously respect your well considered opinions, but I gotta raise my hand here.
Gaydude did mention himself that he's harboring some "residual internalized homophobia" (his words, not ours) in his opening post.
BUT, I don't think it's very useful to dwell on (?) or reinforce the whole dysfunctional dynamic at work in larger society.
And perhaps I'm putting too much emphasis on one point, but while I agree that it's HEALTHY to confront our own -phobias, I think we also need to acknowledge our true character.
That is why I suggested that this "disinclination" towards public affection could be MORE about a "modest" nature than about any "internalized phobias."
I could be totally WRONG, but I feel strongly (speaking as one with an introverted nature) that it could be just as much a question of "nature" vs "nurture" (or abuse) as the case may be.
With respect.
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LateBloomer Wrote:Whoa, hang on a sec.
BA you're one of my favorite members and I tremendously respect your well considered opinions, but I gotta raise my hand here.
Gaydude did mention himself that he's harboring some "residual internalized homophobia" (his words, not ours) in his opening post.
BUT, I don't think it's very useful to dwell on (?) or reinforce the whole dysfunctional dynamic at work in larger society.
And perhaps I'm putting too much emphasis on one point, but while I agree that it's HEALTHY to confront our own -phobias, I think we also need to acknowledge our true character.
That is why I suggested that this "disinclination" towards public affection could be MORE about a "modest" nature than about any "internalized phobias."
I could be totally WRONG, but I feel strongly (speaking as one with an introverted nature) that it could be just as much a question of "nature" vs "nurture" (or abuse) as the case may be.
With respect.
Dwell on it - no.
I think its important to understand that society programs and continually reinforces that 'self hating' we have of ourselves. Both blatantly and in a round about manner. Such as the messages that 'Anti Gay Marriage' sends out without saying it right out.
This programing is all around us, and is a huge influencing factor on how we perceive of self. That is what leads to our internal self hatred (homophobia). As you pointed out he sees it as 'residual internalized homophobia'.
Even if that programming magically stopped, the effects of that programing from the past will still causes lots of issues.
EXAMPLE: My parents told me repeatedly that I was 'useless' - somehow inferior to everyone else. Here I am in my mid 40's and often repeating the same words they said to me. While I got away from them in my late teens, their 'programming' still influences how I still view myself. I have to check myself to see if what I am telling myself is actually 'truth' or just me repeating what my parents said. Distinguishing between the programmed 'truths' and reality has lead to my becoming somewhat more healthy in my view of myself.
We LGBT are constantly under the influence of society's programing. LGBT are not self-harming and being suicidal and depressed because we are 'that way' - we are doing these behaviors because of the way society has treated us for being 'that way'
Gaydude did say he felt embarrassed and disgusted at people seeing him as gay. Seems to me someone is repeating what was told to him tens of thousands of times.
Even if he is modest and an introvert, being disgusted at oneself for being gay doesn't' fit the profile of modesty and being introverted. It does fit the model for emotional and mental abuse.
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If I'm really comfortable in a relationship, I'll engage in high risk behavior. Ha, like brushing up against his hand or telling him he's hot. That's about as pda-y I get. I know better than to do otherwise here in Texas
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Bowyn Aerrow Wrote:Dwell on it - no.
I think its important to understand that society programs and continually reinforces that 'self hating' we have of ourselves. Both blatantly and in a round about manner. Such as the messages that 'Anti Gay Marriage' sends out without saying it right out.
This programing is all around us, and is a huge influencing factor on how we perceive of self. That is what leads to our internal self hatred (homophobia). As you pointed out he sees it as 'residual internalized homophobia'.
Even if that programming magically stopped, the effects of that programing from the past will still causes lots of issues.
EXAMPLE: My parents told me repeatedly that I was 'useless' - somehow inferior to everyone else. Here I am in my mid 40's and often repeating the same words they said to me. While I got away from them in my late teens, their 'programming' still influences how I still view myself. I have to check myself to see if what I am telling myself is actually 'truth' or just me repeating what my parents said. Distinguishing between the programmed 'truths' and reality has lead to my becoming somewhat more healthy in my view of myself.
We LGBT are constantly under the influence of society's programing. LGBT are not self-harming and being suicidal and depressed because we are 'that way' - we are doing these behaviors because of the way society has treated us for being 'that way'
Gaydude did say he felt embarrassed and disgusted at people seeing him as gay. Seems to me someone is repeating what was told to him tens of thousands of times.
Even if he is modest and an introvert, being disgusted at oneself for being gay doesn't' fit the profile of modesty and being introverted. It does fit the model for emotional and mental abuse.
Understood.
I guess I'm just trying to "cool off" the discussion by pointing out even he qualified his feelings as "residual".
I didn't get a sense of any possible "self harm" or "suicide" from that post.
Of course it would be best to hear from Gaydude.
Listen, I totally understand your point BA and it's 100% valid. My question is, how does it help Gaydude?
Is it helpful to tell him, "you feel disgusted with yourself because you're a victim of society"???
Or is it more helpful to say, "you're right to be cautious in public but stop beating up yourself over every little 'quirk' that makes you different."
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I think it's more of societal impact that makes me feel shame because wherever you turn there is anti gay sentiment.
I would be very comfy with PDA if nobody cared. If I'm in a gay area I am comfy doing it.
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Gaydude3 Wrote:I think it's more of societal impact that makes me feel shame because wherever you turn there is anti gay sentiment.
I would be very comfy with PDA if nobody cared. If I'm in a gay area I am comfy doing it.
Well, that settles that.
I humbly bow and tip my hat in BA's direction.
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It doesn't settle how to eliminate letting societal thoughts bother you but at least there is a cause.
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Gaydude3 Wrote:It doesn't settle how to eliminate letting societal thoughts bother you but at least there is a cause.
Well my brother, listen to this...
Most answers can be found INSIDE. Don't look to society to solve your problems.
That is my Pollyannish advice.
My cynical advice goes something like this: eventually you'll grow older and more tired and just stop giving a shit what other people think. Sure, you'll be older and wiser, which means you won't plant a big fat kiss on the lips of a skinhead at a neo-Nazi rally, but eventually you'll be fine going out to dinner and greeting your partner with a warm hug and a kiss.
This is LIFE.
Welcome to it.
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