Can anyone raised "gay is a sin" Christian answer this?

[Pix]

Hey, I just watched a vid and I wanted to ask anyone here (or anyone who knows someone from this background) who had been raised in a Christian home that said gays are damned (and believed it themselves) if they'd been willing to consider killing themselves (and WHY) over a religious belief as described here at 2:10-20 (and Tyra adds another had said the same thing):




Can someone explain to me why he wouldn't at least try to have at least a brief moment of happiness? :confused:

After all, many Christians like to say, "If there's no God I haven't lost anything for believing, but if there is a God I get everything." So why not, "If there's a God who cursed me and now I'm going to Hell then it's futile to resist as I can go later after having hopefully experienced a moment of happiness and just maybe I'll change before I die and go to Heaven after all, but if there's not a God then I can have a life that might include love, happiness, and fulfillment without the Hell"?

Is it like a terror? I've read that some people lost at sea have intentionally drowned themselves because they couldn't stand the terror of trying to stay alive, so to end the fear they ended themselves. But given that the terror in this case is of Hell and one is going there after death then I don't see how this could be the case...

I had assumed that the reason so many gays raised in this background committed suicide because of the SOCIAL reasons (the reasons I can understand). That is, they didn't want to face the rejection (and worse) from their friends, family, and church which would cause them such heartache so to prevent this from happening they kill themselves (or kill themselves because this rejection happened). I can imagine some hating themselves because they think God hates them and can't understand why they can't "pray it away," but surely suicide wouldn't make it better in any way. Seeing this made me think there must be something else at work, however, a specter in one's mind so to speak, that one believes in this God so much that they want to SEND THEMSELVES to eternal torment because that's what Jesus would do.

One more thing that baffled me: he says later on that he didn't tell his mom he was gay because he didn't want to disappoint her, yet he was willing to kill himself. Does this mean that some believe being gay is an even bigger sin and shame than suicide? :confused:

Remember, I wasn't raised Christian so I don't "feel God" or fear Hell anymore than I fear getting coal in my stocking on Christmas, and the Bible is as meaningful to me as the Koran. So can you explain this "force" or "presence" that afflicted you (or gods forbid, still afflicts you)?

I'd like to understand this not only because human nature intrigues me, and not only because I think it can help me better understand (and thus counter/predict) those who wish to kill me out of religious morality (and I have been threatened with death before with Bible verses cited why me and my girlfriend had to die), but because it might make it possible for me to help someone in the future who believes they must do God's will by killing themselves because right now I currently have NO IDEA what this is like.

Another part I'm wondering about is if people are raised to at least consider killing themselves because they felt they've betrayed God for being gay then what do all their straight relatives think of gays? After all, if gays unfortunate enough to be raised in such homes are willing to kill themselves then aren't their straight relatives even more willing to kill someone else for it if given the chance? :eek:

I do recall someone I used to know who told me when she voted against Prop 8 she found it hard because she could "feel God's disappointment" in her (despite that she no longer believed, at least not at a conscious level) and it was painful for her. I wish now I could get in touch with her again and ask her more about that...

And btw, have you ever seen the Jasmine arc of season 4 Angel? I recall finding this really creepy and also paralleling Bible prophecy of a "new heaven and new earth" where all live in love & harmony worshiping the divine, and as I saw on that YT vid I linked to where he was going to send himself to Hell because he had failed God by being gay I was reminded of where Angel fell in worship before her, robbed of his free will and now considering Jasmine as God, and handed her his sword and asked that he be executed for having worked against her. I'm curious what you thought of that scene and any feelings you had watching it. That is, could you relate? And did you feel horror at the scene (as I did)?

Thanks.

[Genersis]

I can't answer completely; being relaised non-religiously, but i can say a small something.

I spend a lot of time posting on a Christian forum, with Christians like you describe.

Around 1-5% of the Christians there i think would be more upset finding out their child was homosexual than if they commited suicide. Especaily if their child was ok with being gay or in/had been in a samesex relationship.

They see homosexuality as destroying the world and Christianity.
Suicide is a one off sin. Though a surefire road to hell. While homosexuality is LIVING in sin.
To discover their child was one of the immoral that are destroying society would destroy them.
They would either disown or try and "fix" them.

Children with these families no doubt would rather die to keep the secret but still be loved to some degree by their family. The shame they must feel about their orientation forced on them unknowingly by their family would make taking their life so much easier; with a self worth defficit and what not.

[jaxc]

well there's no doubt many believe that "homosexuality is a sin" bs (mainly because they don't know the first fact about being gay/bi) but i never felt ashamed of it, at least not enough to commit suicide. something that always baffled me though is how some people can call themselves Christians and yet encourage violence and death to anybody who disagrees with them( did they forget about the whole "love thy neighbor as you love thy self" thing:confused

[Bowyn Aerrow]

I take it you haven't reached the point where suicide is the only viable option left.

I committed suicide, even in the face of knowing that I was going to go to hell for committing suicide. The idea of death was better than the idea of life. The idea of eternal torment becomes more palatable when your whole body aches for death.

When one reaches the point where death is the only viable option, you are already in hell - a place that appears to be eternal torment. On top of that, you know that you deserve the flames of hell - you know this.

Why attempt to live a happy life when you know that that is impossible? If you already know that you are going to hell no matter what else you do, then why stick around? Prolonging the torture of life is not going to prevent you from burning in hell.

Might as well rush off and go to hell and get it over with.

For the suicidal person the terror of life becomes more than the terror of hell...


If you never been there you can't possibly comprehend it.

[Nick9]

Around 1-5% of the Christians there i think would be more upset finding out their child was homosexual than if they commited suicide. Especaily if their child was ok with being gay or in/had been in a samesex relationship.

They see homosexuality as destroying the world and Christianity.
Suicide is a one off sin. Though a surefire road to hell. While homosexuality is LIVING in sin.
To discover their child was one of the immoral that are destroying society would destroy them.
They would either disown or try and "fix" them.

This is just disgusting. Thank God I live in an atheistic country...

[Nick9]

I take it you haven't reached the point where suicide is the only viable option left.

I committed suicide, even in the face of knowing that I was going to go to hell for committing suicide. The idea of death was better than the idea of life. The idea of eternal torment becomes more palatable when your whole body aches for death.

When one reaches the point where death is the only viable option, you are already in hell - a place that appears to be eternal torment. On top of that, you know that you deserve the flames of hell - you know this.

Why attempt to live a happy life when you know that that is impossible? If you already know that you are going to hell no matter what else you do, then why stick around? Prolonging the torture of life is not going to prevent you from burning in hell.

Might as well rush off and go to hell and get it over with.

For the suicidal person the terror of life becomes more than the terror of hell...


If you never been there you can't possibly comprehend it.

Interesting, how much I can identify with that even though I don't believe in hell.

[ceez]

well, the one verse they can use was in Leviticus, the whole man shall not lay with men thing. but I always believed Christianity was based on the Jesus and the new testament and his teachings were about peace and love, and a lot of people are going to hell if they stick to every sin in the book like laying in the same bed as a woman on her period, bad mouthing your parents, gathering sticks on sunday, eating shell fish, and wearing clothes of different material.

plus one could argue that the eunuch was a gay person in the bible, this is from Mathew 19:11, Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriagec because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.” the scary part is I noticed the word eunuchs is being taken out of the newer bibles.

many people practice the old testament which is much more strict than the new testament but it's not the Christian way, the bible is supposed to show gods grace and mercy and the hardships the characters in the bible went through but the whole thing is not meant to be taken literally. after all its called Christianity because it based on the teachings of Jesus Christ so anything else is a made up religion.

and another fun fact is the people in the bible were still people. Noah was a drunk and David sent another man on a suicide mission to steal his wife away who he was spying on while she bathed. sadly like Bowyn said growing up gay and Christian you feel like you are already in hell, that was part of the reason why I attempted suicide, after that I couldn't except god didn't love me and did some researching of my own. like one of my favorite rappers said "religion misunderstood is poison".

[Pix]

I know other parts of the Bible are used to show why gays are bad besides Leviticus (which does say killing someone gay isn't a crime). One glaring example that really disgusts me (especially when interpreted this way) is the story of Lot who offered his 2 virgin daughters to gang rapists, and had the evil men accepted the offer then the city would've been spared (ie, raping virgins--and even handing your own daughters to a mob to defend unknown male guests--is seen as righteous or at least tolerable, the point being it wasn't rape that was the evil here, but gay lust). Even without that interpretation I find it despicable that Lot was found "righteous" after doing such an unforgivable deed (this is a rare example where I'd have been a hell a lot harsher than the god of the Bible, and Lot would've been struck down with the mob--not the city, just the mob, so maybe even then I wouldn't be harsher). (Furthermore, I don't buy that story that he was raped by his daughters while he was passed out drunk.) Btw, I have relatives (who don't know I'm gay, though I think they suspect by now) who have warned me to stay out of San Francisco and Los Angeles because they feel God will destroy those cities for their tolerance of gays, and they cite the story of Lot for believing this (I lucked out having parents who held the church in contempt, even if they had other problems).

The NT also backs the atrocities of the Old, from Jesus saying he didn't come to destroy the law (Mt.5:17-19) to like Hebrews 11:32 (where St. Paul lists some real sociopaths of the OT as good role models for Christians to follow, like one who's only noted for slaughtering people in a war and celebrating his bloody victory by sacrificing his virgin daughter to the Lord).

In particular toward homosexuality is Romans 1:26-27 (the only Biblical reference to lesbians, and I must say I don't appreciate what he implies is the "natural use of a woman") , followed by verse 32 that says such people (to include gays and lesbians, and even those who simply tolerate gays) deserve death, which was one of those verses cited at me in explaining why I and my girlfriend had to die. It's also the Biblical justification for Westboro Baptists waving a sign that says God doesn't hate you for being gay, but you're gay because God hates you (and why I can see how people who take a literal view of the Bible believe God cursed them if they're gay, and why they should be able to pray it away by "getting right with God"). This guy has the appropriate response to Romans 1, IMO:

[eskimojimmy]

I was raised Pentecostal here in North Carolina.

Growing up I started to notice that I was attracted to other boys in sixth grade. I was honestly terrified, I just knew that I was a sinner and that I would go to hell. I was ashamed and by ninth grade I planned to commit suicide. To be so lucky that I made friends with the most wonderful girl in school and she made me realize that it was nothing wrong with who I am. To this day, we are best friends; I don't know that I would still be around if it wasn't for her.

After her helping me become comfortable with my sexuality I began to come out to some other friends, and noticed that word was spreading fast. Realizing this I decided to tell my mom, because I wanted her to hear it from me. She didn't know what to think, I think she was as confused as I was about it. She told my grandmother and they thought I should speak with the pastor at church. I did at the agreement that they would talk to someone for me, to help convince them that its perfectly normal. (That never happened in this small town) My grandmother finally told my grandpa like this "Would you rather someone in our family to be gay or date a black person?" his response was be gay. That's how she told him.

My grandfather barely spoke to me for 2 years. I decided to live with them my senior year of High School to be sure I got good grades. I would go to my friends house almost every weekend until one day he decided to talk to me. Saying he didn't think I was going to make it anywhere in life, that I wouldn't be able to get a job. That all I do is sex, party, and games. I replied that I don't party, that I rarely play games and I never have sex; to which he said "You're gay aren't you?"

Today I am working at a Cosmetic Counter Manager and quickly moving my way up. I have been offered a higher position. For the first time in my life I know that my Grandpa is proud of me. He has finally been coming around, and I've never been so happy.

Well that's my response.



-Jimmy

[ceez]

this has got me wondering what if the homophobes knew that being gay wasn't all about drugs, sex, and nonstop parties (don't know why they think only gay people do this). it seems like it's the main reason or reasons why parents don't want their child to be gay.