Not sure what to do at this point.

[trekrider36]

Hello everyone, I'm a 36 year old dude who has recently accepted myself for who I am, a gay man. I was raised in a Christian school from the age of 4 until I finished the 8th grade. I first noticed that I had attractions to other guys more than girls around the 5th or 6th grade. I never had the courage to explore these feelings do to my religious upbringing and the fear, guilt, and pain I new that it would cause. Reflecting on my life I have realized that the few girls I was attracted to all had a strong male energy about them. I didn't lose my virginity until I was 24 because one I wasn't chasing girls because, well I was more into guys. I always felt bad about myself because of this, and used to pray that God would make these feelings and attractions go away. Growing up I had a short temper and a lot of rage and anger. At that time I didn't realize why, it took me 35 years of only being with 2 women, and marrying one of them to realize that I wasn't being true to myself. I'm now beginning a divorce and I am out to my family and friends. I first came out as bi, but them after separating from my wife and reflecting, have come to the conclusion that I'm gay.
What I need help with is this, my best friend who I met at work 8yrs ago, is also about to get divorced. He is comes from a hardcore Mormon background and has come out to me, and told me that he is gay. He told me all of this about 3 yrs before I came out. Before either one of us ever came out, he has been the most kind, caring, and best friend anyone could ask for. One day while at work, I was telling him how I wish I had a rocking chair to chill on, in the front porch of my house. About 6-7 months later the dude shows up with a brand new rocking chair which he hand made me! Also, he is always giving me stuff; for example, an old ipod which he did not use anymore, new cleats for my bicycle shoes, and various other things. We go on bicycling rides an average of 2-3 times a week together. He is the kind of friend you just can't believe is real, sometimes I think I'm dreaming. Anyhow the crazy thing is he and I have been married and both have kids for about the same time, 8yrs, as long as we have known each other. After he came out to me that night while at work I told him, dude I don't care if your gay, I will always love you and your still my best friend. He told me how things almost happened between him and another friend years before we met. And I told him how I experimented at age 14 when I was a teen with my cousin. As the years went by, during our bike rides he would always say things or text me things that I considered kinda flirty, but it was confusing because I wasn't sure if it was just all in my head. Then we hadn't seen each other in a few months, because life got busy. We finally were on a ride one day, and he's behind me drafting, and says man I have missed this view. I immediately thought, man is he flirting with me or am I trippin. Oh and during our rides we were always supporting each other on how fucked up our marriages are, and how are wives seem so distant and stuff like that.
So eventually, I told him man after 8yrs of shit marriage, which counseling didn't even help, that I'm seriously thinking about divorce. He then said well you can honestly say that you gave it your best shot. Then he said who knows maybe buddy and I will be living together soon. I told him that would be nice. Shit with my wife in the mean time was still going down hill. Finally one night after taking her out for dinner and stuff, we came back to the house and I tried to get friskie with her, but as usual it was like being in bed with a dead fish. Something inside me snapped that night and I just started crying for like 3 hours straight. I told her I can't do this anymore, then went silent and didn't say a word to her for a week, which is very much so unlike me. Finally, she wanted to really talk to me. I told her I'm bi and that I feel like we need to separate, and then she said she still wanted to work things out, if I did, so I said fine. That lasted about a week, things in her changed and all of the sudden she wanted to make love everyday. The other thing is, I have always felt so connected with my friend, I know he and I are soul mates, when we first met it was crazy how we just bonded. During this time when my wife and I were attempting one last go at our marriage, we had just finished having sex, and the phone rang, it was my best friend, and he asked me how things were going between my wife and I, and at that time I said things were going good, and he was quiet and didn't say anything for at least 30 seconds, I swear I heard him crying, it's like he sensed my wife and I having sex psychically. I then immediately knew that my marriage wasn't going to work out because I was in love with my best friend. We made small talk then shortly after I hung up.
It's little things like this that make me feel he loves me too, but I just don't know for sure. then like 2 weeks later we go snowboarding on my birthday, he had mentioned to me that he was serious about sharing an APT with me, and at that time I said F it and just told him that I had feeling for him, and that I wanted him to know that if we were going to share a place together. He never responded, just stayed quiet. I told him while driving home that I'm sorry if me telling him that weirded him out and I hoped it won't mess up our friendship, which I really don't think I could handle. He said hey man I already forgot about it until you mentioned it. So you see how I'm confused?
I think because of his religious upbringing that he may have feeling for me but he is being patient, and is respecting the fact that we are both still not divorced yet. Which I love about him. He also told me he was feeling guilty and wouldn't returned my calls or respond to my text for 2 weeks. He told me he didn't want to be the one to break my marriage up, and I told him dude, this is a life-time of denial and repression we're talking about, and it has nothing to do with you!
I just spent a few hours over his house today chillin as friends with his kids. I truly am in love with him and I feel he is too. I'm just not sure. And I'm scared to death that if I press the issue I will lose him as a friend. So I am just going with the flow to see what happens, and figure our relationship is meant to teach me patience. By the way he and his wife are getting a divorce also.
So my delema is, the next time we are alone should I just lay all my cards out on the table, go for broke and tell him that I realized that I fell in love with him a few years ago, and just finally have realize it? And see what he has to say, or should I just keep going with the flow, and see where destiny takes us? By the way we are planning a backpacking trip to Yosemite in two weeks, maybe if things with our wives isn't totally insane by then.

Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated. This is by far the craziest time of my life so far, and sometimes I feel like I'm going insane. I'm just glad that all the times in my younger life when I contemplated suicide because of being gay, I never went through with it. Because I feel that he is the one, and now I'm just scared shitless because if he doesn't feel the same way about me I don't want to lose him as a friend!!

[Nick9]

So my delema is, the next time we are alone should I just lay all my cards out on the table, go for broke and tell him that I realized that I fell in love with him a few years ago, and just finally have realize it? And see what he has to say, or should I just keep going with the flow, and see where destiny takes us? By the way we are planning a backpacking trip to Yosemite in two weeks, maybe if things with our wives isn't totally insane by then.

Hi,

if I may, please make more paragraphs next time

To your question. I am not sure, I wouldn't do it. You already told him once (sort of), and he didn't respond. Maybe there is a reason why he wants to go for that trip with you. I would wait till then and see how things will be.
Have you caught him checking you out? Staring at you, giving you the looks? Have you shared some intimacy, like... you know those futile touches, when he is near you or when you hand him something, and he takes it and touches your fingers in the process?
Or is he guarded all the time?

How would he respond if you gave him "the look"?

You can tell him how glad you are that you have him in your life. I would avoid "that we are friends". It could give him an idea that friendship is what you want.

It's easy to say, you need to talk about things. For me it's much easier to talk about my issues here than with my partner. But you should try. Slowly.

[zeon]

Hello there,
Sorry to hear about the whole divorce situation... Its never nice breaking up... I would personally inform your friend without the wives being around that you have felt a certain way for a long time about him and that you will respect his answer one way or another and still make the promise to remain friends... Tell him you love him in a boyfriend to boyfriend way... Tell him if he mentions religion that if the one upstairs didnt want gay people... He wouldnt create them... Life is a gift and a game and it can be as fun or as boring as one would want to make it.. Of course dont tell either of your wives what is going on because that wouldnt be fair... Yes honesty is best policy but to a woman a man leaving for a woman can be easily competed however... A man leaving for a man.... There is no competeting there because she wont have what he has...

The one thing you may wish to do is be honest with him about aspects on how you realised you was gay and how you realised that in life being with a woman isnt right for you anymore and its time to let yourself out of the cage and spend your true colours with someone you have known for a very long time and felt love towards... If he questions why you didnt come out sooner just explain the fact that everyone accepts their sexuality differently in life... Yours took time and the reaction hasnt been too bad but your wanting to show someone you feel love towards true happiness... You both got kids which im sure will always love their dads and want their dads to be happy whatever the reason.. I dont think there is any doubt as to why you both cant settle down... If you ever get married just think... His kids will be related to yours through marriage and it will be one big family...

If he bangs on again about religion and about being gay to explain it simply.... Its natures way of controlling population and even animals have gay tendencies... If it wasnt normal then why do male dogs hump each other? Surely nature cant be wrong about this??? This is society brainwashing us and it hasnt worked anymore mister

Well done and go for it

Kindest regards

Aunty Zeon xcx

[pellaz]

i ended my straight marriage with a divorce in 2010. I can give you some opinions and hope they help you:

-The divorce will not happen as fast as you want it to. Usually there is a 90day waiting period from when the papers are filed.
-Dont under estimate what bad feels like, you will experience it. Get a support structure around you, any one will do but your friend would be good. He can guide you through the legal process and do the necessary feel good. All this in a none committal friends only sort of way.
-I suspect you filed so don't expect your wife to lift a finger to help the divorce process. Don't even ask just do it your self.
-The divorce only defines how the proptery gets split up. It is up to you and your wife to actually make the split legal. For example you or your wife will have to quick claim any real estate deeds. After the divorce any loans your wife continues will need to have your name removed. etc.
-As with any end to a relationship, in this case a divorce, you will need some time to emotionally adjust. Re start loving your self and thinking as a single man again. Everyone is different but not wise to commit to a relationship right away.
-After the divorce has cleared the courts and the records have been filed with the city or county take a day off and get a copy. Especially the divorce decree where the proptery separation is spelled out..
-During this time be careful with your life. It is a huge emotional burden and will limit how you perform at work. limit you physically and how you treat other people.
-This is a good time to contact a LGBT center where you live
-Read up on gay issues
-Attend pride this summer


-Gay or straight relationships are mostly the same. All the pitfalls in your straight marriage await you as a gay man. Look out for them.
-Sex is wonderful, if whatever, get your self tested on a regular basses. The free clinics get this done better faster and more private. Be aware on the incubation and testing times.
-Set a guy's night out date with your best friend when your divorce becomes final.

[trekrider36]

To Nick, yes I have caught him checking me out, and there are those futile touches, we've also have shared some hugs which lasted longer the normal, and and I've given him the look without any negative responses, and he's given me the look quite a few times. My gut tells me that he just wants to go slow because he's still living at home with his wife, where as I'm separated already. And I have slowly started telling him how I feel even more so.
Just the other day he was telling me about this conversation he had with his mom about him and his wife getting a divorce, and how he told her he F-ing hates himself. Two days ago, my gut told him I needed to tell him more because I know what it's like to hate myself and I don't want him to go into a dark hole. We've both have told each other how we contemplated suicide before long ago, so I definitely couldn't handle it if he did that. So anyhow when I was on the phone with him two days ago, I told him that he shouldn't feel guilty about what's happening because his intentions were good, it's just life. And I told him that he shouldn't hate himself and to always remember that there's at least one person out there who loves him for who he truly is. Ever since then he seems more cheerful. He invited me to his house yesterday while his wife was at work, and he was watching the kids. We had a great time, just hanging out talking and playing with the kids. Also, we've always texted and talked on the phone quite a bit, but sometimes it seems that I was putting more effort into it. Now it seems to be equal.
Thanks for all your help guys, and I would gladly accept any further advice from all of you! I think for now, I'm just going to go with the flow and let nature take it's course. I have a feeling that when we do finally get some time completely alone again, I will watch for signs, if they are there I will slowly tell him how I feel about him some more. What do you guys think?

[DoubleDiamond]

Trekrider36 - Thank you for your openness and honesty. I admire your courage to be true to yourself.

I offer you two suggestions:

1) Do some reading on what it's like to be Mormon and gay. I've known a lot of gay Mormon guys and IMHO they face even more challenges then most of us. Their family, friends, and Bishop will urge them to go to reparative therapy to be turned straight. It's tempting for gay men to go along with that recommendation because if they don't--if they come out as gay--they will quickly be excommunicated from the church and will be shunned by most, if not all, of their family and friends. So it's common for many gay Mormons to be extremely ambivalent about coming out. Some try to have "the best of both worlds" by staying in the church and ostensibly trying to be straight while, at the same time, they flirt with guys and maybe even have sex but they don't make any commitment to a relationship because that would lead to the excommunication and shunning. Remember that their entire life revolves around the church so being cut off can feel like a psychic death--it's a really big deal. The guys who successfully make the break usually see a really good, knowledgable therapist and build a new support network before and during the coming out process.

2) Your friend sounds like he's stuck in the situation I describe above. Of course, I don't know for sure but that's the impression I got reading your post. I suggest that you eventually say something to him like, "I'm getting mixed signals from you. Sometimes you clearly flirt with me and express deep affection for me but then when I told you that I am romantically attracted to you and interested in pursuing a romantic relationship, you didn't respond. Believe me, I know this whole coming out process is hard, so if you feel confused or something like that, I will understand. I just need to know how you feel about me--even if you have mixed or confused feelings."

Be sure to have your own support network in place. I found therapy and a coming out support group, along with talking with supportive friends, to be very helpful.

Have faith in yourself, care for yourself, and ... Welcome to the family! :0)

[trekrider36]

Thanks a bunch Double diamond. I asked him about that, and he said the church now days doesn't do that anymore. They accept it, but if you are active in a relationship, you cannot advance in rank or whatever. He says they have quite a few out gays at his church. So I don't know, I'm going to have to have some more heart to hearts with him. Just taking it slow man, his friendship means so much to me. I know our friendship is strong, no matter what he won't stop being friends with me. I just don't want to push him, trying to let him take it at his pace. And yes I know it's way harder for Mormons to come out. Thanks a million man!! Your thoughts have given me another angle with which to analyze the situation. mile: