Feeling less defensive at gay bars - how to do it?

[Drew]

Hey guys, it's been a while since I've been around. Hope everyone is still awesome.

As usual, my biggest issue is trying to meet other guys while out and about for dating. I have a hard time doing that. There's a gay hiking group that meets once a month at various spots around the state, and I always have a blast, but most of the other guys are way, way too old for me and/or have a boyfriend already. Most of my interests are not shared by other gay men (bass/guitar playing, the comics/graphic medium/cons, etc), so it's hard to meet guys through those.

So that of course leaves the old standard: the bars/clubs.

But I hate going alone, because I've had horrible, horrible experiences going alone before (I won't delve into those right now, as it's getting late and would rather not go through the process of laying all of that baggage out at this hour).

Now I know you're thinking "uh, just take a friend or two with you", which is fine and I do do that once in a blue moon, but when I do that I usually just talk/laugh/drink with my friend(s) while there, and not mingle with people I don't know.

The problem is, every time I go by myself, I just get really defensive and don't talk to anyone. When someone tries saying something to me or introduces himself, I get really defensive, like "what does this guy want from me? I'm not interested in him, can't he see I'm not into him?" I'll say hi back and/or shake his hand back, but give him clear signals I'm not interested in talking to him.

It's terrible, I know. I realize maybe they're just being nice and want to chat, but again, the bad experiences I've alluded to above make me jumpy now.

I just keep thinking "oh shit, drunken old gay men see me coming in alone to the bar, they probably think I'm cruising or something and that if I'm "nice" to them it'll give them an opening to be lude and fresh with me."

Again, terrible mindset; I KNOW it's not healthy and it's an incorrect perception of reality, but I can't help it. I usually just take a drink to a corner and text/play with my smartphone.

I've tried psych counseling in the past, and I'm thinking of doing it again (if I can find someone in the area that my insurance will actually cover), but my counselor kept giving me the "go with other people/it's not as bad as you think/visualize your success" pep talk before without much help.

Am I alone in this? Or am I total freak and should be banished the nether regions of gaydom?

Advice or few kind and/or kick-my-butt-into-gear words would be wonderful. Thanks in advance!

[Pix]

In my observation there's a "meat market" vibe to most bars & clubs where singles meet so there's not much you can do to get around that. Even lesbian bars tend to be this way.

If you don't have a problem with goths I've found their hangouts can be a pleasant break from that but you might be judged on your clothes (or your art) more than your body. :tongue: And though goths (in my experience) tend to be much more open minded to gays they're not anymore likely to be that way than anyone else (a lot of people believe goths are sexual freaks, but my experience is that isn't the case, though the freaks do exist as well, just as they are everywhere, with goths being less hypocritical and secretive about it). You might make a friend who knows someone you might be able to get along with, however (though I wouldn't advise going with this as your primary goal).

Have you considered a dating site or service? I understand that some really don't believe you when you say you're not into lewdness or casual sex but at least then they deserve your open contempt for having been warned beforehand not to behave that way. And I have heard success stories of people who met that way.

Another option could be to find if there's any speed dating in your area. I understand that gay and bisexual speed dating is about as common as strictly heterosexual.

Good luck with that. And nice to see you around again, I've wondered where you were a few times. mile:

[dfiant]

bars and clubs are not your thing.

bars and clubs are for drugs and a root, obviously you are beyond that.

Online dating is not a bad idea, but much like a bar or club there are a lot of drugs and whores, but easier to fend them of on a smart phone app and far more likely to come across a decent guy on a dating site or app.

Other than the obvious, try a couple more gay social groups, that's about all I have

Good luck

[LateBloomer]

Welcome back Drew.


I totally get it.

Personally, my advice has always been "take an interest in your own life" "Be active in the community" (not just the gay community). The more "exposure" you get to people with similar interests, the higher your chances of meeting someone compatible.

As for the bar scene....I'm no bar-fly so to speak, but I see this needing to be played a little "rough". Not exactly for nice guys. But it's tough out there.

1) Yeah, cruisers are gonna gravitate towards you, cast their line, and hope you take the bait. Sorry to say, but it's gonna seem cold and "stuck up" when you spit the hook out and swim away...but that's what you need to do.

2) When you swim away, if there are no other fish in that aquarium then you just hop out onto dry land and go swimming another day.

3) If there ARE other pretty fish in the aquarium you need to engage your wit, humor and charm PRONTO and join their little party so as to clearly communicate to the cruisers, "not interested". Maybe excuse yourself for a bathroom break and on the way, see if there's someone single or a group you might be interested in. Then you just never return to Mr. Cruiser.

Ok, that's you dealing out a little rejection. But the TOUGH part is now that you've insinuated yourself into another little group YOU are now at risk of accepting a little rejection.

Remember, your wit, humor and charm is fully engaged. You either click or strike out at this point.

If you click, maybe you get a phone number. Maybe you run into him somewhere else and you use the bar experience as a conversation starter.

If you don't click, you maintain your wit, humor and charm and live to swim another day.

Just stay philosophical about it. Keep your chin up. BE APPROACHABLE but stay true to yourself. You're gonna have to endure a lot of BORES in the bar before you find someone you enjoy talking to. This is just the sheer statistical reality of human interaction.

I realize you've had some bad experiences in bars in the past. But other than hiking groups (etc), volunteering, being set up by friends, online dating, that's basically how I feel about the bar scene.

Good luck, keep us updated.

[mrk2010]

Hey guys, it's been a while since I've been around. Hope everyone is still awesome.

As usual, my biggest issue is trying to meet other guys while out and about for dating. I have a hard time doing that. There's a gay hiking group that meets once a month at various spots around the state, and I always have a blast, but most of the other guys are way, way too old for me and/or have a boyfriend already. Most of my interests are not shared by other gay men (bass/guitar playing, the comics/graphic medium/cons, etc), so it's hard to meet guys through those.

So that of course leaves the old standard: the bars/clubs.

But I hate going alone, because I've had horrible, horrible experiences going alone before (I won't delve into those right now, as it's getting late and would rather not go through the process of laying all of that baggage out at this hour).

Now I know you're thinking "uh, just take a friend or two with you", which is fine and I do do that once in a blue moon, but when I do that I usually just talk/laugh/drink with my friend(s) while there, and not mingle with people I don't know.

The problem is, every time I go by myself, I just get really defensive and don't talk to anyone. When someone tries saying something to me or introduces himself, I get really defensive, like "what does this guy want from me? I'm not interested in him, can't he see I'm not into him?" I'll say hi back and/or shake his hand back, but give him clear signals I'm not interested in talking to him.

It's terrible, I know. I realize maybe they're just being nice and want to chat, but again, the bad experiences I've alluded to above make me jumpy now.

I just keep thinking "oh shit, drunken old gay men see me coming in alone to the bar, they probably think I'm cruising or something and that if I'm "nice" to them it'll give them an opening to be lude and fresh with me."

Again, terrible mindset; I KNOW it's not healthy and it's an incorrect perception of reality, but I can't help it. I usually just take a drink to a corner and text/play with my smartphone.

I've tried psych counseling in the past, and I'm thinking of doing it again (if I can find someone in the area that my insurance will actually cover), but my counselor kept giving me the "go with other people/it's not as bad as you think/visualize your success" pep talk before without much help.

Am I alone in this? Or am I total freak and should be banished the nether regions of gaydom?

Advice or few kind and/or kick-my-butt-into-gear words would be wonderful. Thanks in advance!

See I recently had this problem and things turned out ok. Basically you kind of need to leave those "ooohhh why is everyone staring at me" feelings at the door and just not give a fuck and have a good time. Basically what you need to do is find a decent bar/club which is a good one and not notorious for people hooking up. Now go there maybe once a week and kind of become a regular soon enough you will be able recognise who goes there and when and believe it or not people will talk to you. At first just go there for a drink and don't make it a goal to meet new people, if someone comes up to talk to you great :-) but if they don't don't worry your main goal was just to go out and have a drink. Do you have any gay friends? Why not ask them if they will go out with you? It will probably make you feel more comfortable. One of my best friends Matt and I go out every week and he made me feel more comfortable and it's worked out for the better. Also when you are out if you attract some unwanted attension just say politely you aren't interested and move on. If they persist just tell them to fuck off and don't be so polite about it.

[pellaz]

do you feel competitive with the guys your with? Common feeling in men gay or straight.

There is still the on line stuff. I guess it has its bad too.

you could volunteer but it feels a lot like work.

[TomStatic]

THe only advice i can give is just be somewhat confident in yourself and how u present your self
as if your showing some confidence someone will notice
my logic is , any guy can be attractive if they are confident

[Sylph]

Well Hai Drew I like your avatar btw .

Hmm.. well you're not alone in the way that you think. If I'm alone, I'm always on the defensive, because I feel like people are just waiting to take advantage of me [not always sexual, they could be asking a favour and I'm in a rush somewhere].

But I'm generally sociable and like talking to people, like in the grocery store, if my cart and someone elses bump or we pass each other I make a little joke like; "beep beep" mile: . Though like you, I don't like when people approach me, because I think they want something from me or whatever, unless it's for like directions or something, my hackles will be raised.

People only have literally 1 chance with me to make a good impression and for me to see if they'd be a good friend/boyfriend, otherwise it's back to being an acquaintance. I'm generally obnoxious to looks and what not, but once I meet a person, the game is on within seconds. I look in their eyes, look for facial/muscle twitches, give-aways, body-posture, proximity/etc.

It's something I've been doing for so long, I didn't even realize I did it, until someone told me I do. I don't speak to people I don't perceive as having a good personality and generally avoid them to the best of my ability.

I always try to teach my mom to do this, but she thinks she's fine without it .

It's probably due to the bullying and teasing I went through as a child, and is my defense mechanism against people with an agenda.

I wouldn't suggest that you not be so defensive, but more or less aware and in control of the situation. Let them approach you, and let your instincts guide you, we have them for a reason.

Though I'm bubbly and love everyone, I can't let someone mistake my bubbliness and love for an easy victim, so being defensive isn't always a bad thing, but you should know when to be and how much.

Welcome back Drew :biggrin:

[Bowyn Aerrow]

Instead of seeking 'dating' (are we talking courting or sex here?) Try just making friends. Yes even the old men and couples can make for good friends. To top it off they will connect you with other people, via parties or if you lucky you will make a friend who's personal mission in life is to be a fairy match maker.

Even at the bars - when a guy walks up to you look at him as a potential friend, not a potential 'date' or lover. If it helps, say 'I'm looking for friends' - Just don't wink after you say that, it changes the meaning.

I would suggest pursing hobbies that meet with groups. Like that hiking group. Bass/guitar playing, the comics/graphic medium/cons, etc - Its gay - meaning there are other gay men out there with these same interests.

MOST of the other guys are married or old - what about the rest that don't fall into the most category? What is wrong with them?

How picky are you? Are you just too picky when it comes to men, discounting them upon first sight because they have a crooked eye tooth, or their second tow is shorter than their big toe? Or are there real reasons to not venture into potential relationship such as their abusive/violent behavior?

A counselor can only offer suggestions (just like we do here). Ultimately you are going to have to make an effort and put yourself out there and try.

[East]

Well...I have almost the polar opposite experience from you but I had alot of friends who actually said the same things you do over the years and when they would bring it up I would say something along these lines.....you did say "kick my butt into gear" words which I am going to at least attempt....I hope it does not offend you as it is not my intention....

At least part of what you are speaking of is classic projection....the reference to people who approach you that you aren't interested in and dismissing them with a judgement is rude...and you are ultimately speaking about yourself. Are you not looking for something as well? Do you like being dismissed and/or ignored by the object of your affection? How would you feel if you heard the other people talking about you and referring to you with the same words you refer to other people with? Try a little kindness toward the other people and you might find that kindness extending to yourself.

There have been a few posts on this board where I swear the person was channeling the mother from CARRIE...Mrs White..."All men want this or that" ...YIKES! You do NOT want to go there...come back to the light!:biggrin: I find a sense of humor about these things is really important and pivotal to changing whatever behavior you want to change.

Try this....do NOT go into a bar looking for anything at all! I was friendly to anyone really when I was in a bar. I didn't care if they were 21 or 81...fat, bald, gorgeous, muscular...everyone was equal to me as far as being friendly with them. Meeting so many interesting people over the years in bars has positvely affected my life and enriched me in so many ways....

I hated two things...being objectified and people who spend alot of time ridiculing other people...especially about their looks or what they are wearing...I turn off instantly to people who do that and usually wish I could take a bath to get any of their stench off of me. :eek:

...so the next time someone extends their hand to you...maybe try being friendly and just talking to them because they are there. Do not dismiss someone because you are not romantically interested in them because you have just defined the bar and yourself by insisting conversations and approaching other people is all about a hookup while getting angry at the people who you deem are doing that to you...instead of just letting people be who they are...and besides... you never know when the friend you make might introduce you to the love of your life!

If you have had bad experiences...join the club... It is called life. Why...oh why...oh why...do so many people make everyone else pay for the mistakes of a few? If you have been hurt...that is great! It means you are still alive. Get up, brush off your knees...and play even harder!

I guess in the end...it all boils down to putting yourself in someone else's shoes and maybe seeing things with a fresh mind...a different perspective. mile: I am not sure any of that will help at all but I sincerely hope something clicks for you in this thread. Good Luck!