I'm arsonphobic- I hate guys who are flaming!

[WheresTheLove]

I know this is gonna sound like a stereotypical gay man's rant, but a lot of us think this and it's probably been posted on here before.

First off, let me say I am NOT femmephobic. Feminine ≠ flambouyant, big different. A lot of guys are both, but they exist independently. I've met feminine guys who were on the quiet side and were very nice (and cute too). A guy being feminine does not bother me. I am a little bit too. I'd actually rather a guy not be an over-masculine stereotype.

What I do not like is the obnoxious guys who have to set the world on fire with their flames. Guys who have to exert their personalities and attention-whore everywhere they go. They have to get all in-your-face about everything. They have to comment about what you're wearing is ugly or out-of-season, they have to talk as loud as possible, it's like they have no self control! And they're really rude too! They think they get a pass for being gay and stylish or whatever. News flash: you don't. Humans should be respectful, no matter who or what they are.

Honestly, despite a lot of gay characters in the media being that way, I've luckily only met a few people in real life who were. But, my God, I had to do all I could to stop myself from running in the opposite direction at full speed.

In my college there was a guy like this. For the purpose of anonymity, I'll call him Darren. He was flambouyant as they come. I didn't even initially think he was gay, just an overly-excited straight guy, if that makes sense. But of course he had to start talking loudly about what kind of gay sex he prefers and his boyfriend, etc. He seemed to mock anything he could. There was a guy innocently eating at a table maybe 10 feet away from us, he pointed out that the guy "had an ugly Jew afro" and started making anti-Semitic comments. Darren had an afro too, but he's black, so it's okay for him to have one I guess. Speaking of that, he also seemed anti-white. He claimed he "hated" white people, yet would always ask them for money (no, I'm not making this up, he did always ask my white friends for money). He actually commented on someone's cell phone too, saying it was only meant for people on welfare (I guess everyone has to have a smart phone nowadays?). Oh, and would brag about his drug habits, including snorting cocaine.

And ironically, everyone loved this guy! I'm dead serious. Even the white people he claimed he hated. I remember I was with a group of a friend's friends who were saying that they hated gay guys, but then they said "except Darren, he's a cool gay guy.". Everyone always wanted to hang out with him!

Sorry for that whole rant, but it pisses me off. I try to be a nice, respectful guy in real life. Maybe I come off as too shy, but it sucks that nobody respects me, yet they all respect this guy who claims to hate them and insults them. I try to make friends by being nice and I fail. I seriously want to die. God did not make me to fit into this world. I may start cutting again just from talking about that.

I realize that "Darren" was a really exaggerated example, but I know other guys like this exist, and it annoys me how they think that because they're a minority (or in Darren's case, two or more minority groups) they can act/say what they want and still be respected. I tried so hard to get respect in the past, and got nothing. So you know what? I won't even try anymore. Why try if it won't happen?

So yeah, if you're an obnoxious flambouyant guy who has to be rude to everyone and thinks it's cute or funny- it's not. Stop it.

[Rikki]

Insecurity - this guy has a huge gaping hole in himself which would normally be filled with confidence, self respect, honour and self worth etc. But people like this are missing such qualities, so they fill them up with all this over the top behaviour, which includes projecting negative views/behaviour on other people. And of couse, everyone has insecurities so when they see someone covering it up with "outrageous, cool" behaviour, they flock towards them and think they are cool - all these people flocking towards Darren. Many people like to act, to wear a mask, to cover up their lack of self worth with awful behaviour, so when they see someone else doing it, they get a reflection of themselves, and these are the people who "LOVE" to see themselves - ego. It is is a very ironic kind of pscyhology - they want to avoid looking at themselves and their lack of self worth and they do that by seeking people that reflect that.... weird.

Fortunately it is a very tiring act to keep up, and these people are tiring to be around. It requires a lot of fake, non-recycling energy. Whereas Being Real is simply Being You - it is much easier, and being respectful and nice is energy that will recycle if you can find people who do the same.

Do not give up bud, you may not find YOUR reflection in people yet, but when you do it is worth it.

[Puck]

I agree with everything you said good sir.

As you said, there's absolutely nothing wrong with being feminine (I think we all are, male and female to some extent at least) but there is a fine line regarding being yourself and being an obnoxious loudmouth.

Its a wonderful thing to be proud of who you are. I've sported lots of pride around town and participated in many local gay events. But being gay is just one facet of life, it should no more dominate one's personality than a heterosexual should overemphazise their sexuality (though I see many who do lol)

Truth be told, most people have no idea I'm gay until I tell them. I don't shy away from the subject of my sexuality, but I feel its such a little part of what makes me who I am. I'm just an ordinary average guy as the song lyric goes....which is how it should be in a perfect world mile:

[Sylph]

Guuurrlll Drama! .

Most of my gay guy friends are like what you described, but minus all the rudeness and insults. They're just loud .

My big ol'queens

But I am also this way somewhat, and it's probably because my mother is that way, extremely real and extremely obnoxious and extremely loud, so if she had something to say, you will hear it, whether you want to or not.

And it's not always rude, actually it rarely is.

I love setting a path of fire where I walk .

But I'm not stereotypical, which confuses most people. I don't like fashion, don't like doing hair[a lot], don't like makeup, I like working with Animals, I'm such a geek sometimes, I love to sit at home and read and I really don't judge people, or I try really hard not to.

It's not fair to say being a flamer isn't who a person is, it's actually literally who they are. But I can agree sometimes it can be a bit over the top.

I'm generally calm, but my Diva moments can fly at you at any moment, only some guys don't know when to turn it off or down and actually dial it up for purpose when you complain or make it known you don't like it.

I even have straight guy friends who don't mind being around me when I flame up. They're not gonna join me, but the pretty much just laugh :p .

But then again, most Bermudians are loud people anyway. People yelling across the street and talking and singing loudly while working...

So I can also attribute that to my culture. It's a very... expressive culture.

[Sylph]

And also sir, I don't want to sound mean, but you have to stop sounding/acting so bitter... it's probably why you have no respect!

It's slightly infuriating, that you think flamers have it easy.... Do you know how long and hard I've struggled to get comfortable in my own skin?? In a country that's known for homophobia and is only recently cracking an eye open in regards to homosexuality and everything that comes with it.

Especially because, who I happen to be, is someone that most people here[usually the older males and some younger ones] hate.

I had no friends for years, only 1 and I had to struggle everyday, I was scared, alone and afraid I would be killed or beaten up or harrased on the bus to and from school and not just by students....

It's nice you try to make friends by being respectful and I agree, insulting people should not get you friends, but don't just think that all flamers are rude people who have it easy and get friends on the drop of a hat, cause that sir, is ignorance personified!

I just happen to be a really strong person, and though I love people, I fell sorry for you that seem not to be, especially if your cutting yourself! It really makes me lose hope to come across people like you, who complain about themselves and make it seem like only they have it hard.

I didn't even judge you up til now, and I dislike myself for it, but it's not fair and extremely rude and prejudiced!

And I feel like you threatened me... and don't mistake my kindness and love for weakness, because I've been through way to much shit to take any from you, so I suggest you think before threatening people who you know nothing about...

I'm really saddened. I know you're a good person, but I can't bring myself to not respond the way I have... it's just not right for you to think like this... it's negative and full of malice. You sound like someone who not only wants to harm/kill yourself, but other's too...

I apologize, even if you don't accept it, but I stick to what I've said. :frown:

[WheresTheLove]

Most of my gay guy friends are like what you described, but minus all the rudeness and insults. They're just loud .

But I am also this way somewhat, and it's probably because my mother is that way, extremely real and extremely obnoxious and extremely loud, so if she had something to say, you will hear it, whether you want to or not.

And it's not always rude, actually it rarely is.

But I'm not stereotypical, which confuses most people. I don't like fashion, don't like doing hair[a lot], don't like makeup, I like working with Animals, I'm such a geek sometimes, I love to sit at home and read and I really don't judge people, or I try really hard not to.

It's not fair to say being a flamer isn't who a person is, it's actually literally who they are. But I can agree sometimes it can be a bit over the top.

I'm generally calm, but my Diva moments can fly at you at any moment, only some guys don't know when to turn it off or down and actually dial it up for purpose when you complain or make it known you don't like it.

I even have straight guy friends who don't mind being around me when I flame up. They're not gonna join me, but the pretty much just laugh :p .

But then again, most Bermudians are loud people anyway. People yelling across the street and talking and singing loudly while working...

So I can also attribute that to my culture. It's a very... expressive culture.

If they're actually respectful and not rude, then I don't have a problem... I just don't like the rudeness, the inflated egos, the superiority complexes that some have.

Maybe that's why I have trouble understanding it. My parents are the quiet type who keep their opinions to themselves usually and only tell me what they think when we're alone. Not to mention I'm naturally quiet somewhat- though in my earlier school years I was kinda loud and obnoxious, I toned it down a lot.

Again, it's not to do with stereotypical gayness, it's just being rude and getting in people's business and stuff when someone doesn't belong there.

As I said, I was loud and obnoxious as a kid. I was able to tone myself down and become the quiet kid in the back of the classroom. If I can, I assume most others can too, but I know this isn't always the case. Despite being outspoken and somewhat rude online, I'm not in person.

Also, you just made me realize, perhaps that the people who befriended Darren were actually laughing at him. =\ It didn't seem like that was the case, but if it was then that's messed up.

And also sir, I don't want to sound mean, but you have to stop sounding/acting so bitter... it's probably why you have no respect!

It's slightly infuriating, that you think flamers have it easy.... Do you know how long and hard I've struggled to get comfortable in my own skin?? In a country that's known for homophobia and is only recently cracking an eye open in regards to homosexuality and everything that comes with it.

Especially because, who I happen to be, is someone that most people here[usually the older males and some younger ones] hate.

I had no friends for years, only 1 and I had to struggle everyday, I was scared, alone and afraid I would be killed or beaten up or harrased on the bus to and from school and not just by students....

It's nice you try to make friends by being respectful and I agree, insulting people should not get you friends, but don't just think that all flamers are rude people who have it easy and get friends on the drop of a hat, cause that sir, is ignorance personified!

I just happen to be a really strong person, and though I love people, I fell sorry for you that seem not to be, especially if your cutting yourself! It really makes me lose hope to come across people like you, who complain about themselves and make it seem like only they have it hard.

I didn't even judge you up til now, and I dislike myself for it, but it's not fair and extremely rude and prejudiced!

And I feel like you threatened me... and don't mistake my kindness and love for weakness, because I've been through way to much shit to take any from you, so I suggest you think before threatening people who you know nothing about...

I'm really saddened. I know you're a good person, but I can't bring myself to not respond the way I have... it's just not right for you to think like this... it's negative and full of malice. You sound like someone who not only wants to harm/kill yourself, but other's too...

I apologize, even if you don't accept it, but I stick to what I've said. :frown:

Well I did edit my post to take the threatening part out... I'm sorry I wrote it. I've mentioned previously I do have several mental/mood disorders, but I know that isn't an excuse for everything.

I just wish that people didn't have to be so rude sometimes. I know rude people come in all forms; masculine, feminine, men, women, flambouyant, etc. It's just the rudeness in flambouyant men is something I thought had an effect on the gay population.

You don't have to apologize, you did nothing wrong. I admit I get over-the-top with my rants. I should be monitored when I'm on the internet so I don't like post when I'm having a bad mood swing.

[Sylph]

Oh Sweetie .

Now I feel like a bitch...

Well, I do apologize, cause I don't want to be a bitch lol :tongue:

But seriously, I do agree with you, sometimes it's over the top and rude from time to time, but it's not always insecurities that motivates flamboyancy, but it's just a part of us, or more specifically, me.

The rudeness is something I don't condone, but I believe that, Effeminancy in Gay Males should not be seen as a blemish upon our community, as both gays and human beings in general, but rather a sign of difference, whether you like it or not, of our very diverse world and that not everything is uniformed.

I understand some people are more introverted, tending to shy away from and even harbour a dislike for an extrovert, sometimes even kind ones.

And what set me off even more is the fact that, no matter where I go, I always see a dislike for people like me and it makes me wonder, "what's wrong with me?" even in our own gay community.

To hear gay guys say that Feminine or Flamboyant or whatever gays are tarnishing the "gay name" to me is a complete folly.

In actuality, it was the flamboyant one's[along with non-flamboyant one's, I'm sure] who gave the gay name, it's name and had the hardest time doing it, because they were feminine/flamboyant, so for gays in general to be so flippant and even hateful of feminine gays is something I don't get, is anti-progressive and hurtful to me, because I'm feminine/flamboyant.

A masculine or "average joe" gay guy, can blend in with the crowd and I don't blame them for it, because that's who and how they are, but for feminine guys it's harder because we don't blend in and then comes the onslaught of slurs and insults and degregation from society, plus now, from our own, so it hits home for me and is one of the only things to get me upset the quickest.

I didn't want to offend you, but I wanted you to know how I felt, because I felt like I was being attacked, even though I personally wasn't. I've been through more than you can ever imagine, although I will never complain, because someone else, somewhere, has it worse and if they can do it, then so can I.

Again I apologize for being a Bitch . I'm usually not that person, it's not very often she whips out her claws lol.

Kisses?

[Sylph]

Also, you just made me realize, perhaps that the people who befriended Darren were actually laughing at him. =\ It didn't seem like that was the case, but if it was then that's messed up.

Story of my life.

This is also why some flamers are so mean and rude, because if they are on the offensive allll the time, then no one else can be and they won't get hurt. It's a defense mechanism.

I tend to ignore people who try to hurt me, but sometimes, when they laugh at your faults and mistakes, it can slip past the cracks in your armour.

It's not as easy as people think. It's hard for everyone though, but some people just react differently. mile:

[BeautifulBlue]

I think there's a huge difference between being obnoxiously flamboyant and just being flamboyant. I mean, I'm on the quiet side, but I consider myself a bit flamboyant (though I think more people would consider me eccentric more than anything.) Clothes I wear, my hair color, etc. My general attitude is laid back and relaxed, but I can get real joking sometimes.

I do agree with you though -- loudmouth, obnoxious people who are rude to everyone fucking suck, gay or not.

[WheresTheLove]

Story of my life.

This is also why some flamers are so mean and rude, because if they are on the offensive allll the time, then no one else can be and they won't get hurt. It's a defense mechanism.

I tend to ignore people who try to hurt me, but sometimes, when they laugh at your faults and mistakes, it can slip past the cracks in your armour.

It's not as easy as people think. It's hard for everyone though, but some people just react differently. mile:

I do that a lot- be mean to people and take my anger out on them. =( I've had so many people be mean or ridicule me that I just had to take it out. I mean I won't go and be like "Ugh! Gurlfrend, your hair is so ugly!!!"* or "Eww, someone needs to hit the gym!!"* because that's not me. Usually, I'll just be like "You're a fucking conformist piece of shit!" or "Fuck you and your fucked-up standards! You're a piece of trash who is polluting the Earth!".

*There's nothing wrong with these if you're joking around and the recipient knows that, but it'd be advised not to pull this on a random stranger.