SSM could happen very soon here

[pellaz]

... You're not allowed." and America went, "o.o you grotty bitch. ...

someone has to do it; thanks

[Lilitu]

The first reading in parliament is taking place today. Let's hope it gets through John Key is being a bit pessimistic, but judging by only the decided MPs, it's lilely to get through. ^^ *knock on wood*

[Lilitu]

The bill has passed the first reading!
yay!

It was a 80:40 ratio win as well!

[princealbertofb]

are you sure?
locally in Colorado; a couple of times, a domestic partnership law was proposed and shot down.

''Shot'' down seems to be the operative word... Are you guys in Colorado not lethally over connected to your guns? Why is it that all those shootings seem to happen in the colourful state?

[princealbertofb]

Apparently a huge number of MPs are in favour of this bill. Only one is straight out attacking it and the rest are undecided (but of those around half are tending towards supporting the bill)

The website opposing the bill was attacked (Dos attacks which led to its shutdown) which I find quite disappointing. You should never attack somebody's opinion in that way, this is a serious bill meant to be looked at with serious considerations in mind. I can see the logic of both sides and how marriage as a concept may be offended by a redefinition. But I still think the fact that this bill only changes the definition of marrige in official documentation and all that jazz and not in religion or tradition/culture makes it a fair bill to support.

Fair is the operative word here, since this is a question of fairness, not of gender defining.... It doesn't / shouldn't matter what sex you are to have the right to marry someone you love or want to have marital connections with, nor should it be relevant that the partner be of the opposite sex. Marriage is no longer about making babies. ... in so far as they are not your own mother, father, brother, sister, son, daughter... (incest).

[princealbertofb]

Makes me wonder what the Catholic Church and other "Scotland for Marriage" Churches are going to pull next.

With their sign-and-send post cards, and encouraging sixteen year old school children to vote against the bill antics during the consultation, they managed to make it look like the majority of Scotland is against the change(65% against)...if you don't count the pre-written post cards, and only count people that filled out the official consultation; Scotland is in favour.
They've enabled themselves to skew the results and now cry the Scottish government is being undemocratic for going ahead anyway.

Very sad that Churches still had so much swing in politics. It's a lot easier to rally people when they're religious unfortunately.

At least the churches won't be given the right to oppose secular / civil marriages.

[princealbertofb]

Lol remember when we told America, "Nup. No nuclear anything here. You're not allowed." and America went, "o.o you grotty bitch. No more ANZUS for you."

And we don't even mind international pressure. we have so much of the best butter. Look how creamy and relatively cheap.

Haha, the best lube??? But not with latex condoms, dears.

[Genersis]

At least the churches won't be given the right to oppose secular / civil marriages.

They do have that right.
And they can oppose it much as they like.(and they are)

Unfortunately for them, they don't have any secular reasons to keep same-sex civil marriage illegal, so they can't get their way, no matter how much they cry "undemocratic"; at least until they find a compelling secular reason.
As the UK government and laws functions on a secular basis now-a-days, something churches and religious groups still need to get to grips with apparently.

[princealbertofb]

Let me rephrase that.... They might have the right to oppose them but they wouldn't be able to undo them, if civil / secular same sex marriage were lawful. Their only right would be to refuse to perform them in their churches, which is what I meant by that.

[princealbertofb]

Maybe there is a difference in France and the UK that you don't know about. In France all marriages have to be secular and civil at least. The church has no power to make a civil / secular marriage exist, so all marriages have to be recorded at the town hall.
The church wedding is a ceremony which aims to enshrine the wedding in a faith system. It cannot be substituted for the civil wedding. Sometimes, couples will go for their civil wedding on a week day and then have the religious ceremony some time later, generally a Saturday, so that the wedding party can follow with all their guests. People who do not wish for a religious ceremony of any kind can opt for the civil ceremony alone.

In the UK, weddings performed by churches have the same validity as the secular / civil weddings, which is where our two countries differ, because it means that churches have the power to deliver valid wedding certificates, which certificates attest that the couple has all the rights that civil marriages afford (no more, no less). In France, such a religious certificate would have no other validity than to say that a religious ceremony had been performed (no rights attached).