Camp, should being camp set your role in a relationship?

[Blue]

Okay, I'm not talking about those that are intentionally camp, exaggerating it, etc... I'm talking about those of us that are naturally camp and, would have to fake it to act more masculine. The guys that are camp even if we are wearing camouflage, combat boots, toting a gun and hammering nails into the studs of the wall on the house we are building while watching football. The ones that no matter what we wear or what we do, we are somewhat effeminate and it's natural, not forced or even something we really think about, it is just how we are.

Does, or should that determine your role in a relationship? Do you think others see effeminate gay men as bottoms automatically? Is that different among heterosexuals vs. LGBT people?

I am one of those men, just naturally camp, not extremely so but enough that every partner I have had had commented on it. Now, being single after coming out of a long term relationship, it seems more of the men I meet automatically expect me to be a bottom or submissive than the last time I was single. Maybe it's just the area I live in now, or the ones I've met but, maybe it is indicative of a cultural shift in our community.

[Genersis]

Personally, i think that this line of thinking(That effeminate=sexually submissive partner) is a remnant of the now dying out idea that one of the men in a homosexual relationship is the woman of the relationship and the other is the man of the relationship.

I also believe it is a just as misguided idea.

[Bowyn Aerrow]

Should camp= bottom? That is a hard one to really answer.

Personally I think no - but then I'm an odd fellow who really doesn't play by the rules of society and who constantly shirks the responsibility of fitting into designated pegs. Seriously, an elf persona should be a clue that I hate to fit in. :tongue:

I think that the there may be a real psychological need of the masses for set 'rules' of behavior to help them to define their role and place in the pack/herd we call society. Further, we tend to adopt behaviors and 'affectations' of our subsets, the Jocks get all Jockey, the Cheerleaders get all bitchy and into false beauty, the Goths wear black, et cetera, each group adopting its behaviors, mannerisms and working toward acting like their peers in that group. Yes even the nerds set themselves up as they adopt behaviors to demonstrate that "I am nerd - hear me roar".

Honestly I don't know if there really is a thing as 'naturally campy' - On the other side of that coin I don't know if there is such a beast as 'naturally masculine'. I suspect that the reality is that how were were raised, how society paints gender roles and lots of other influences forces us into one or the other. Expectation of peers and parents and the society were were raised most likely has the strongest influence on how we act/behave and do things.

Camp/Effeminate = Bottom: For many people it does equate that way, and conversely if you are straight acting/butch you have to be a top, or you are forced into that role unless you can find a more masculine man than you. (there are many reasons why I have only been with 8 men)....

Why? Its a side effect of the process I call 'genderfication'.

Genderfication is the brainwashing we all receive starting at birth. Doctor looks between your legs and declares 'Yep we have a penis!' suddenly you are dressed in blue, put in a blue crib, put in a blue nursery. Dad brings sports equipment and mom eventually dresses you in sailor suits (love the sailor suit).

The older you get the more defined your role is based on what hangs (or doesn't hang) between the legs. Boys never get easy bake ovens, but many boys grow up to be the world's best pastry chefs - go figure. Boys never get dolls (action figures are ok, dolls - never) it is as if males are not expected to learn how to nurture their offspring. Boys are not supposed to cry, boys are supposed to play sports, hunt, have mechanical skills, blah blah blah.

Girls have their rules to follow as well, its a double edges sword. If a girl acts male-ish, she is considered a tom-boy and parents frown on that.

We in the LGBT community are not saved from the Genderfication process (brainwashing) we are all raised with the assumption that we are straight and will play the man/woman role as outlined by 'normal' society.

The genderfication process relies heavily on the penis and how the penis is used. Men penetrate women - thus any one who is penetrated is a woman. If you act like a woman (following the many directions laid out about what the females do and don't do, how they behave) then it is obvious that a man must penetrate you.

If you are camp/effeminate it is assumed you are signalling you want to be treated like a woman. If you are masculine, it is assumed you want to be treated like a man. It all hinges on a sick society that spends way too much time thinking about penis (or the lack there of) and little time thinking about the real manifestations of ability and personality.

From my person experiences and observations of what people say/do, I find little difference between the expectation of the LGBT community when it comes to how a person behaves than I do from the hetero community. The only real difference is that LGBT accept the whole camp/nelly queen 'persona' as being natural and the straight world tends to frown on it more, with its many members violently protesting against it.

The general idea that campy= bottom/masculine= top exists in both cultures.

Maybe this has changed over the past decade or so. Frankly I no longer hang with my own kind, or for that matter hang with any kind. I have pretty much become a homebody preferring not to engage in social settings.

[LateBloomer]

The genderfication process relies heavily on the penis and how the penis is used. Men penetrate women - thus any one who is penetrated is a woman. If you act like a woman (following the many directions laid out about what the females do and don't do, how they behave) then it is obvious that a man must penetrate you.

If you are camp/effeminate it is assumed you are signalling you want to be treated like a woman. If you are masculine, it is assumed you want to be treated like a man. It all hinges on a sick society that spends way too much time thinking about penis (or the lack there of) and little time thinking about the real manifestations of ability and personality.

Years ago I was reading some feminist criticism of our western male dominated culture and our own fascination with our penises.

The point was made: Why is it always the penis that "penetrates" the vagina? Why isn't it ever the vagina "envelopes" the penis?

:confused:

Great point, right?
mile:

Why can't we apply the same irony to topping and bottoming? Why is the bottom always "penetrated" by the top? Why can't the bottom "envelope" (or whatever verb you prefer) the top?

Ok, ok, ok...
I understand the terms top and bottom actually have their own connotations of superior vs. subordinate (or inferior, or whatever terms you prefer).

My questions is, can't we just make love without all the stupid words.