need for natioal health care

[East]

GREED....the end result of Capitalism...has necessitated that we have socialized NOT FOR PROFIT health care....if we are to retain our humanity.

Th whole "I am an island" argument....I "choose" not to have health care...a bunch of BS. It reminds me of the helmet laws so many people protest.

Yes...it IS your life. But someone from the socialized system you hate is gonna have to clean your brains up off the highway and dispose of the waste...or do we call a relative so the taxpayers dont' have to pay for the removal or your body and the blood? Who should we call? Whoever it is will probably have to suffer the rest of their lives with the trauma of having their loved ones brains between their fingers? A bit selfish I would say.

..and what about the thousands of veggies who are being cared for by their parents and relatives who basically have to give up their life to do so? The cost involved? You say let me die? Sure....emotionally blackmail the members of your family because you're selfish "I am an island and a rock" attitude didnt' really account for the fact that you really ARE NOT an island because if you were...there would be a bunch of f*cking water around your ass instead of 24/7 care....because you didnt' wear a helmet.

(Just an FYI footnote...I DO beleive that people should have a choice about wearing a helmut. It isn't the choice I have a problem with...it is the island analogy that I think is a load of crap.)

[Blue]

I agree, but people in general won't go for it here. So instead of beating our head against that wall, lets think of some things that might actually work.

Thing some of us try to do as far as we can. Footing the bills for a friend so they can get better care. Maybe something like that could be expanded into a community based, donation driven fund that was for that community only.

Maybe a tax write off for people that provide voluntarily respite care, or care full time for someone that needs it vs putting them in a facility, or hiring a home health aid or nurse that is actually enough incentive to get those able to do it to actually get out there and do it.

Income based fees for care that was not sub par would help too, but don't go raising the costs for others to provide it to lower income people.

More drug companies offering assistance to those that can't afford the medicines they produce (some do that now), things of that nature, ways to encourage things like that.

[zeon]

Here in the UK im glad my National insurance i pay out of my wage ensures the NHS is kept free

[pellaz]

Many people have belief systems

Everyone has a belief system. Someone can by lucky enough to impose their beliefs onto other people it becomes a religion. Form a government under one religion you have a Theocracy. I cant tell you what to believe in but i know its a personal thing.

i just know my health insurance company is pissing me off of late and the system sux

[pellaz]

I ... Maybe a tax write off for people that provide voluntarily respite care, or care full time for someone that needs it ... that is actually enough incentive to get those able to do it to actually get out there and do it.

Income based fees for care that was not sub par would help too, but don't go raising the costs for others to provide it to lower income people. ...

I would agree!!

[Bowyn Aerrow]

Education is not a Luxury. Fire protection is not a Luxury, Police Protection is not a luxury. We all pay into these things.

Sure I don't have kids, but I still pay taxes that educate other people's kids. I most likely will not ever need a fire department, but my taxes go into it. Maybe since I don't have kids I shouldn't pay for the system of education?

Healthcare should not be a luxury.

Considering how many people have lost their homes due to medical bills piling up it becomes obvious that 'pay as you go' isn't really working.

Of course those are part of the 47% who Mitt Romney accurately describes as being unlearn able and unreachable, thus should be thrown to the side of the road......:eek:

I find it ironic how the conservatives who are the 'Moral Majority' Tend to not understand what their number one leader (Some guy by the name of Jesus) would say or do in such matters.

[Blue]

I agree, Bowyn, I'm just looking at ways to get around what many have given me as their reasons for not supporting any reform that would make them pay for anyone else's care.

The most common one I hear boils down to a fear of government control. "If they can force everyone to buy health care, then they can force us to buy broccoli, and if they do that, we all have to obey or they will take our food, house etc... away."

We're not going to cure greed, and we aren't going to cure the "Pull yourself up by your boot straps" mentality in this country. So, how do we get help to those that need it and not have to beat our heads against that wall?

[Bowyn Aerrow]

If I recall correctly the original Health Care act bill didn't have a mandatory 'you must buy' clause and had something more on the lines of free health care.

But the Republicans bitched and complained that that sounded too much like what Jesus would do, so had the bill overhauled to a thin shadow of its former glory.

The Republicans have been forcing things with their 60 vote majority ruling and lots of other underhanded evil things, thus ruining the potential for real bi-partisan actions.

What they should of done is work with Democrats and take a few pages out of the bible and apply liberally, instead what they did is worry about big corporations and the Almighty Dollah and screwed over the people, once again.

So what we get in the way of 'Obama Care' is not going to be perfect, by a long shot. But it is a general step in the right direction.

If I was president, I would declare a state of national emergency, then bring to bear all of those Emergency acts that give president the powers of dictator. Cut out the whole congress and senate and set about restructuring the USA.

Thankfully I'm not running for president this year.... in four more years I might get a wild hair up my arse and run (and win). :biggrin:

[Blue]

Hey, good idea. Lord knows this country could use a good overhauling and, a massive does of compassion and common sense.

I'd vote for you - you'd be a damned site better president that the last 20 at least (or current prospects)

[East]

The current plan is the Republican Plan which is why Liberals hated Obama..for caving in. The fact that Republicans have fake outrage about it now is laughable since it is their own candidate who is the architect of the basics in the plan to begin with.